Will Labour ever get back in?

[Blueblossompinksky]

My understanding is that the labour majority was in part because of the Scottish vote, which seems to have gone to the SNP.

I realise it’s unlikely that the Tories will get back in with such a large majority as 2019 but will there actually be enough seats for Labour to win?

@GrendelsGrandma

I can't understand people who say gender stuff would stop them voting labour. I understand the precise point, but overall a pro-welfare state, pro-workers' rights party will always be better for women.

I think it's all about demographics really, currently the electoral landscape is still dominated by older people's interests. At some time we'll reach a tipping point and parties will have to reform because the old political identities don't hold for younger generations.

Personally I'd like to see a third party, like the Lib Dems but better. With an actual vision for the country. Brexit has made everything so negative and hate-filled.

Pro-welfare? And that’s supposed to be aspirational? Pro-welfare, big on dependency culture from nu Labour is what got us into the mess that is the low productivity and low wage economy we have. How about high wage, low tax, high productivity agenda to give people a chance to earn more and keep more? Admittedly the Tories have not done that either.

GrendelsGrandma - because if I vote for it, Labour will think their approach is ok (it isn’t). I’m not colluding in the removal of my and other women’s rights.

It doesn't matter why people will or won't vote for a party, you won't get anywhere explaining to people why they are wrong for voting the way they do.

Demographics don't matter either. Labour can't keep saying that they'll win tomorrow, because tomorrow never comes.

@Crimesean

Labour are far too removed from what the working class actually wants and needs. They're too busy naval-gazing and arguing about bullshit topics like identity politics and other similar woke rubbish.

People care more about stuff like jobs, the economy, the welfare state, the NHS, transport, women's and children's safety, and immigration. Labour seem to have forgotten all of that, and have only the vaguest of policies with no underpinning data on affordability. They're lost in a sea of Westminster chatter, I can't see them finding their way back unless Momentum fucks off to form their own party.

This.

I don't have faith that the tories will do these things in a way that will actually benefit the lower classes who need it in society.

But at least they can define a woman and are in touch with what needs to be done - levelling up etc.

I've always been a Labour voter. But right now I wouldn't vote for them anymore than I'd vote for the Tories.

I reckon Lib Dems need to take their chance to make their come back right now with decent policies and no ideological shit!

Serious question; Has anyone asked Boris what definition of a women is?

He's got enough of them pregnant that I think we can safely say he knows what a woman is.

I agree with the OP, the loss of Scotland to the SNP means that it will be very difficult for Labour to ever win a majority in Westminster while we have FPTP although they might be able to lead a coalition of the left. But in the current system the left leaning vote is split between the SNP, Labour, the Greens, Plaid Cymru and the Lib Dems. Specific policies are irrelevant while that is the case.

No party should be "pro-welfare". Labour should be anti-welfare, pro-worker. They should aim to make the welfare state obsolete because there would be no need for it if everyone had good, well-paid jobs with decent pensions.

Labour have absolutely no chance. They don't even understand basic biology, and the ones that do are too cowardly to speak out.

Pro-welfare, big on dependency culture from nu Labour is what got us into the mess that is the low productivity and low wage economy we have.
You're right, big business has become dependent on government handouts, faux regulation, massive bonuses awarded to senior staff for failures and pretend free markets.
It's a terrible dependency culture.

@Florenz

No party should be "pro-welfare". Labour should be anti-welfare, pro-worker. They should aim to make the welfare state obsolete because there would be no need for it if everyone had good, well-paid jobs with decent pensions.

The welfare state still has to provide for people who cannot work.

Men are not women and the fact that Labour MPs continue to actively insist they are because they’re either too stupid to know the difference or to scared to say it out loud is why I won’t vote for them

If they’re that stupid and/or spineless over a basic biological fact and have allowed themselves to captured by TRA then what else will they be stupid/spineless and captured over

Só as I can’t vote Labour despite voting for them all my life and wouldn’t vote Tory if you’d paid me, like so many women I’m politically homeless

I think a huge problem is that the votes coming from the left leaning population are split much more than the right. If you're left leaning you can vote Labour, which is very problematic at the moment, Lib dem, SNP and Green (as main parties). Whereas, the right vote will mostly always go to the Tory party. The opposition vote is so splintered it will make it difficult to oust the Conservative party, no matter how awful they are.

No, it’s worse than the Kinnock years now.

Labour have stated very clearly that they don’t want me to vote for them. So I won’t.

The women thing matters and is important because once you redefine what a woman is every single hard won right women have becomes a man right too.

Well that didn't take long.

Forget any wide ranging discussion on electability OP.

@ilovesooty

Unfortunately for you, you don't get to decide what other people base their vote on.

Not while they're pushing identity politics and have no idea what a woman is

They’ll need to work out what’s woman is first

Dominic Raab... assertion that misogyny applies to both sexes.

I hate to break it to you, but most of the population would assume the same. Plenty have never heard the word "misogyny" fewer still would have heard the word "misandry".

As an interview question, "what is a woman?" is ideal because of its simplicity. Everyone knows what a woman is so watching politicians tie themselves up in knots trying not to say so is prime entertainment.

I doubt I'll ever vote for them as long as they firstly: Don't seem to actually like the UK very much and back any movement which seeks to condemn it and/or selectively use history to demolish our symbols and national icons. Secondly: They're championing identify politics, and are unable to say what a woman is.

@Yeahthat

Well that didn't take long.

Forget any wide ranging discussion on electability OP.

@ilovesooty

Unfortunately for you, you don't get to decide what other people base their vote on.

Of course. I'm still allowed to express my point of view though.

Men are not women and the fact that Labour MPs continue to actively insist they are because they’re either too stupid to know the difference or to scared to say it out loud is why I won’t vote for them

If they’re that stupid and/or spineless over a basic biological fact and have allowed themselves to captured by TRA then what else will they be stupid/spineless and captured over

This. It's about their craven dishonesty more than anything.

No, Labour has been infected by the woke virus.
No known cure, unfortunately.

The Tories have always been the party for middle class people with assets or inheritance to protect. That left plenty of the field open for Labour. Unfortunately Labour seem to have decided to go after middle class votes as well. Since 2010 they have chosen three successive leaders who stayed firmly inside their own personal comfort zone and the current situation is the result.

The only time Labour has been electable in the past 40+ years is when it shifted to the left of centre and became 'New Labour'. In that position and with a young, dynamic team at its helm, it was able to mop up a lot of centrist voters who had become disillusioned by the Tories under Thatcher and Major.

I thought that perhaps Keir Starmer would be able to steer the party back towards that middle ground, but so far not only has he failed to do that, he's headed down the woke rabbit hole with the loony left of the party. His unwillingness to define what a woman is was a new low for the party, compounded by senior Labour women like Annaliese Dodds and Yvette Cooper doubling down. If Labour is prepared to chuck 51% of the population under the bus in order to placate the hard left of the party I can't see them regaining power any time soon.

May's government is history. It's the current policy which matters, and the Conservatives are the only major party to have shelved it.

They are the only party in power, so they are the only ones who can get totally rid. But they haven't. May's government is history and one day so will Johnson's. Just a few weeks ago Penny Mordaunt was being tipped as the next Conservative leader.