Will Labour ever get back in?

[Blueblossompinksky]

My understanding is that the labour majority was in part because of the Scottish vote, which seems to have gone to the SNP.

I realise it’s unlikely that the Tories will get back in with such a large majority as 2019 but will there actually be enough seats for Labour to win?

I am not a Labour member or voter. I have listened to other women and share their concerns. The Conservative Party are not a friend to women. The GRA reform is Tory policy. They are responsible for the current shit show, they don't care about sex based rights.

I actually would live to see a Conservative whitewash at the council elections (mwahahahaha), but do not vote for them in the basis that at least the Conservatives know what a woman is. Many of them have swallowed TWAW. Some are full on TRAs. And their leader, PM Johnson, refused to say that only women have a cervix.

@TooBigForMyBoots

I am not a Labour member or voter. I have listened to other women and share their concerns. The Conservative Party are not a friend to women. The GRA reform is Tory policy. They are responsible for the current shit show, they don't care about sex based rights.

I actually would live to see a Conservative whitewash at the council elections (mwahahahaha), but do not vote for them in the basis that at least the Conservatives know what a woman is. Many of them have swallowed TWAW. Some are full on TRAs. And their leader, PM Johnson, refused to say that only women have a cervix.

Does any party state what a woman is?

Who will you vote for?

It has always been the case that Labour only ever form a government when individuals who ordinarily vote for other parties (including the Lib Dems and the devolved nationalists) vote for them.

If Labour's starting point to these people - that it needs to win over - is "what were you thinking, you Tory scum?" then it's going to be a looooong slog to make themselves electable.

That's before you factor in the considerable levels of continuing abhorrence at Corbynism and cuntinuity Corbynism. It's not just that I don't want the likes of Richard Burgon, Angela Rayner and Rebecca Wrong-Daily anywhere near the corridors of power, but in the most important political decision of my lifetime Corbyn was supposed to campaign for Remain when in reality he bent over backwards to avoid actually doing so. I cannot see how I could ever forgive the Labour party for that.

@maltravers

I don’t like being told women’s rights aren’t important enough to determine my vote. That I should put my concerns to the back of the line for more important issues. Women deserve equality and it appears we won’t get it unless we insist on it (including with our votes). You wouldn’t expect someone gay to vote for a party with homophobic policies. I’ll look at the best option when the next GE comes, but I won’t vote for Labour (as I usually would) when their policies are so damaging to women.

Nobody’s said that. You can do what you like with your vote. I’m not sure you’ll find anywhere to place it though because none of the political parties give a shit about women’s rights.

So calling people ‘right wing’ didn’t shut the discussion down, so we’ll bring in accusations of ‘Tory bots’ now, shall we?
Try listening. You’ll find you have more in common with people than differences. If you only focus on the differences, then you’ll get the divisions in place for the dysfunctional society we’re headed for.

I'm in NI, safe from the threat of a Tory council. That's why I'd be happy if they cleaned up, it will have no impact on me.

Would like to add my name to the list of those amazed that "finding an issue they know people are passionate about" is framed as some kind of low trick and as damning evidence that the poster is a Tory bot.

My goodness, the arrogance.

TooBigForMyBoots

I know what my MP's opinion is on this issue because I've met him to discuss it. He's a Tory, I met with him before the last GE to find out his views. I still didn't vote for him because his voting history suggests we do not have similar values even though we agree on self ID. However, I was called a bigot on my own driveway by the LibDem (had always voted for them until they formed a coalition with the conservatives) canvasser and the Labour door knocker (a man who happens to be married and had two daughters) didn't think self ID was a big deal.

Please don't assume I'm too stupid to do any research for myself or that I have no direct experience with candidates or their representatives in my area.

The current situation is that the Conservatives are the only significant party not planning to press ahead with self ID. I'll review my position should that change. I am way past caring who started this shit show, I will vote for whoever intends to put a stop to the erosion of women's rights and the dismantling of safeguarding. If that happens to be my arsehole Tory MP then so be it. I'm keeping JKR company on this hill and will die here if I have to.

@Otherpeoplesteens Corbyn has been well and truly kicked out, no longer a labour MP. Angela Rayner
apologised for that insult and I agree it was pathetic. But tory policies are already affecting us, Brexit was a Tory project, to blame Labour for brexit is frankly weird.

@stuckdownahole

Would like to add my name to the list of those amazed that "finding an issue they know people are passionate about" is framed as some kind of low trick and as damning evidence that the poster is a Tory bot.

My goodness, the arrogance.

Absolutely

And yes to this

The current situation is that the Conservatives are the only significant party not planning to press ahead with self ID. I'll review my position should that change. I am way past caring who started this shit show, I will vote for whoever intends to put a stop to the erosion of women's rights and the dismantling of safeguarding.

It’s the hill here too, for me and for my dd.

The thing is, they aren't actually doing anything about that issue they know people are passionate about. They're just using it to manipulate the vote, the way they did with Brexit.

I'm keeping JKR company on this hill and will die here if I have to.
Then you better beware of Conservative MP, Crispin Blunt who recently reported a woman for retweeting JKR @FOJN. I'm glad you're doing your homework, everyone should because it's dangerous to assume how any candidate stands on this issue.

@TooBigForMyBoots

The thing is, they aren't actually doing anything about that issue they know people are passionate about. They're just using it to manipulate the vote, the way they did with Brexit.

I'm keeping JKR company on this hill and will die here if I have to.
Then you better beware of Conservative MP, Crispin Blunt who recently reported a woman for retweeting JKR @FOJN. I'm glad you're doing your homework, everyone should because it's dangerous to assume how any candidate stands on this issue.

Which party has the best stance in terms of stating what a woman is? in your view

Then you better beware of Conservative MP, Crispin Blunt who recently reported a woman for retweeting JKR @FOJN. I'm glad you're doing your homework, everyone should because it's dangerous to assume how any candidate stands on this issue.

I'm fully aware of Crispin Blunt's behaviour thanks. I make a point of reading or watching the news and informing myself before forming an opinion on a political issue.

Perhaps you better beware of being so patronising. I hope it's not a surprise for you to be told you are not the most informed of informed things just because you think you are.

Or least likely to press ahead with Self ID?

Which party has the best stance in terms of stating what a woman is?

Probably the DUP.

I don’t actually believe any of the posters wobbling on about bots are politically minded in the slightest

Every single thread like this over the last few years has had posters saying they feel they can’t vote for labour…and gets bombarded with people saying how dreadful they are for voting tory

When a lot of those posters (not all) have never voted tory and don’t intend to

Other parties exist and can be voted for and people can spoil their votes if they want to

Its this pesky thing called democracy and a number of ‘everyone is a tory bot’ posters are sounding like the more vocal brexit posters and seem very unhappy that the voting public are allowed to vote for anyone they want to

More than two parties exist

People can vote for whomever they like

I am curious though….a poster upthread mentioned gay people voting for a party with homophobic policies. One assumes that the ‘tory bot’ posters believe that gay people should indeed vote for those parties?

Why don’t you try and listen to what many women are saying rather than do the typical Labour insult / belittle and bot part?

I havent insulted or belittled anyone. Nor have I called anyone a bot.

Looks like Johnson has said views today

Few threads on it

Good to hear finally

[quote Mistygreyeyes]@Otherpeoplesteens Corbyn has been well and truly kicked out, no longer a labour MP. Angela Rayner
apologised for that insult and I agree it was pathetic. But tory policies are already affecting us, Brexit was a Tory project, to blame Labour for brexit is frankly weird.[/quote]
Rayner was interviewed by Andrew Marr last night. Still a Corbynista through and through. I can't trust a party that has her on the front bench.

It's my hill too.

It's now my starting point when examining a party manifesto and policies.

I am appalled. Absolutely appalled by the behaviour of labour over this issue. I voted labour at every opportunity prior to this. No chance now.

Why people feel that is unimportant baffles me. I am a very clichéd left leaning middle class professional woman - indicative of thousands like me. I am the sort of person who does the teas at the school fayre, joins in with the local tree planting, litter picking, cake baking. I am community minded and focussed. I coordinate the food bank collection for the harvest festival, I run the second hand uniform stall, the shoebox collection for the homeless at Christmas, snack time at playgroup, song group at the library...I'm not right wing, I'm not religious, I'm not bigoted.

I'm sick of being dismissed.

@Mistygreyeyes Angela Rayner was not the first, and I very much doubt the last, Labour member to refer to anyone else as "Tory scum." I have had it said about me, in my presence, by Labour door-to-door canvassers during both local and Parliamentary elections - i.e. more than once. As in shouting to the bloke with the clipboard "no bothering point here, just more Tory scum" as they walk down my driveway.

I was in Wrong-Daily's constituency at the time.

Brexit was not a Tory project. It was an ERG and UKIP project - the entire European Union was effectively held to ransom by about 30 unhinged MPs. Labour could, and should, have properly campaigned to Remain, but Corbyn is a neo-communist who saw a chance to weaken capitalist Britain and the entire EU and took it.

@MarshaBradyo that’s very good news, as it demonstrates that the issue has been noticed.

Maybe he’s been reading this thread?? 😃

It seems he knows

twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1506613982697775113?t=bwnvT7wPAQ2VPQwtweCmEA&s=19

@Mistygreyeyes

I’m constantly surprised by the number of threads about labour’s unsuitability to be in power when we have had a tory government for the last 11 years that is totally corrupt and inept. So many examples of their incompetence and dishonesty, pork barrel politics, dodgy deals that have affected every one in the UK and in particular woman but nope Labour are even worse. Very few threads about their corruption but one condemning labour every few weeks. I’ve been on MN years +15. It used to be a kind mildly left leaning site. Not any more.

It's because this site is a left-leaning one that there are more threads about Labour.

Users here feel personally betrayed by Labour, and apprehensive about having to hold their nose to vote for Labour as a "least-bad" option. It is upsetting. I always used to be able to make a cross in the Labour box with a song in my heart. Now I can't. So, yeah, I post more about that than I post about the Conservative party being sleazy.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough in what I was saying, which is on me.
I'm not saying that everyone that cares about this issue are bots, at all - the knee-jerk rage!

I'm saying that there are a lot of bot accounts out there that have managed to frame these issues as a case of "if you have this view on this issue then you CAN'T vote Labour because a vote for Labour is a vote against this view you care about" when the truth of the matter is usually that ALL the main parties won't have expressed a clear stance thats in favour of the outcome you want.

NONE of the main parties have said "a woman is someone born with F on their birth certificate and we will always stand up with that viewpoint" and yet its an issue that has been framed so often as a purely anti-Labour view.

It's also not helpful to say "well I won't vote for anyone then!" because there are so many other also important points - womens voices and votes are important and we should have a voice in trying to direct our countries politics and not stay silent because no parties are publicly supporting one side or the other on an issue even if its the most important one to you.