Will Labour ever get back in?

[Blueblossompinksky]

My understanding is that the labour majority was in part because of the Scottish vote, which seems to have gone to the SNP.

I realise it’s unlikely that the Tories will get back in with such a large majority as 2019 but will there actually be enough seats for Labour to win?

But women saying this is having an effect @StormTreader hence the Johnson answer today

Ok, so he has expressed a general personal view but hasn't committed in any real way to any pledge as a party to do or not do anything specific? Just that "When it comes to distinguishing between a man and a woman, the basic facts of biology remain overwhelmingly important" which means as much or little as you want it to mean really.

Let's see if that's still the view he has in a week or two I guess, and if that translates to any actual concrete pledges or assurances that will affect anything at all - he does love to speak in favour of whatever direction is blowing in the wind this week. At least its the start of a view on it.

I also believe its less that women are having an effect, and more that the current trans swimming issue in the news at the moment is highlighting that there is definitely still a lot more work to do in regards to fairness in sporting events at least.

Nimco Ali is a friend of the Johnsons and I bet Carrie reads Mumsnet, so I wouldn't be surprised to see the Tories adopting a more TERF-y position before the next election even if it's only to get more votes.

@StormTreader

Maybe I wasn't clear enough in what I was saying, which is on me. I'm not saying that everyone that cares about this issue are bots, at all - the knee-jerk rage!

I'm saying that there are a lot of bot accounts out there that have managed to frame these issues as a case of "if you have this view on this issue then you CAN'T vote Labour because a vote for Labour is a vote against this view you care about" when the truth of the matter is usually that ALL the main parties won't have expressed a clear stance thats in favour of the outcome you want.

NONE of the main parties have said "a woman is someone born with F on their birth certificate and we will always stand up with that viewpoint" and yet its an issue that has been framed so often as a purely anti-Labour view.

It's also not helpful to say "well I won't vote for anyone then!" because there are so many other also important points - womens voices and votes are important and we should have a voice in trying to direct our countries politics and not stay silent because no parties are publicly supporting one side or the other on an issue even if its the most important one to you.

Even if no party is or has been perfect on this, there is actually a huge gap between them.

Labour have made it clear that they, as a party, maintain TWAW/TMAM and that those who say otherwise are bigoted. The Conservative party doesn't.

Labour MPs are hounded for speaking against the party view on this, and so are party members at the local level. Voters have been told they are bigots for not agreeing. The Tories have a wide variety of views with many of them speaking out against these ideas, and have not called voters bigots.

Labour intended to pursue self-id, and it's possible to imagine also hate-speech type laws like those in Canada. The Tories don't and have not been all that receptive to the idea of that kind of hate speech law.

Labour MPs have said things like TW should be housed in women's prisons and seem keen to expand treatments for kids. The Tories seem to have a lot of MPs against this kind of thing.

LibDems and Greens overall are the same as Labour on this.

So if we think about these groups actually being elected, it simply looks like there is a shit-ton to worry about with Labour, while even Tories who do support those things would struggle to get support in their own parties.

And that's without considering the bad taste that Labour's dismissal of women's views on this has left in people's mouths.

Knee jerk rage?

Good lord 😀

I think the distinction is as clear as day - Labour wants the law changed and the Tories under Mrs May decided not to do so after their consultation to which I responded (on the trans issue)

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10644465/Boris-Johnson-jumps-trans-row-saying-basic-facts-biology-remain-overwhelmingly-important.html

Maybe I wasn't clear enough in what I was saying, which is on me.
I'm not saying that everyone that cares about this issue are bots, at all - the knee-jerk rage!

I'm confused. Did you just take responsibility for not being clear but then immediately take it back by accusing those who objected to your "Tory bot" comments of "knee jerk rage"?

NONE of the main parties have said "a woman is someone born with F on their birth certificate and we will always stand up with that viewpoint" and yet its an issue that has been framed so often as a purely anti-Labour view.

No one is born with an F on their birth certificate; that document is completed after you are born and your sex has been observed.

The Labour party are being criticized because the are the party of opposition and they support self ID. Whilst the conservatives have not publicly spoken about the definition of woman they have stated they will not reform the GRA to include self ID which means that we can use the protections and definitions contained within the EA 2010 to protect our rights and single sex spaces. The EA defines a woman as a female of any age and a man as a male of any age. Female and male denote biological sex which is immutable and not a spectrum.

@babyjellyfish

Nimco Ali is a friend of the Johnsons and I bet Carrie reads Mumsnet, so I wouldn't be surprised to see the Tories adopting a more TERF-y position before the next election even if it's only to get more votes.

A party... trying to get more votes? What, instead of acting as if they'd rather lose an election than be tainted by association with The Wrong Sort Of Voter?

What? There are parties that try to increase their vote-share?

@PurgatoryOfPotholes Crazy, I know!