Will Labour ever get back in?

[Blueblossompinksky]

My understanding is that the labour majority was in part because of the Scottish vote, which seems to have gone to the SNP.

I realise it’s unlikely that the Tories will get back in with such a large majority as 2019 but will there actually be enough seats for Labour to win?

Not for a very long time. BJ and most of the front bench are absolutely fucking useless. Corrupt, grubby, dishonest, revolting. They’ve made fuck up after fuck up and people still prefer them to Starmer and his band of idiots. No one who cares about the safety of women and children could ever vote Labour till they stop being biology deniers so we’re all buggered.

@RubyTrees

Not until they know what a woman is!!

If they struggle to understand the definition of a woman, they won't be surprised when women decide not to vote for them.

Well that didn't take long.

Forget any wide ranging discussion on electability OP.

I dont think so, though I desperately want them to. This current shit show couldnt be more corrupt, morally bankrupt or incompetent yet loads still want to vote for them. I dont get it.

I covered (I’m a journalist) the Tory Party conference in 2004 - Michael Howard’s first - and wondered the same about them. There was a ridiculous video about which pop singers they liked, with Nicholas Soames claiming to like Dido. Three years later I was at the conference when George Osborne stood up and said the Tories would raise the inheritance cap ceiling to £1m. It wasn’t pre-briefed. Everything changed in that moment. You can’t see the tide turning until it happens.

@Birdy474

Let's hope not. Who wants the lying head the ball crazy clown car gender nutter party in. Lol. Not me.

Do feel free to tell us what your concerns are, and the positives of the current government.

I can't stand Tony Blair for lots of reasons
However the reason why he got in was because he really did make people believe that things could only get better ,and they did for a while plus he had charisma,
I can't see any of the current shadow cabinet doing what Tony Blair did .

Can’t agree on their identity politics and the way they’ve sidelined women’s rights.

@ilovesooty

unfortunately, many women that would be inclined to vote labour now will not - in what way do you find this to be a small matter in deciding their electability?

Not now that they’ve alienated 50% of the population by their inability to define a woman.

@Longtalljosie

I covered (I’m a journalist) the Tory Party conference in 2004 - Michael Howard’s first - and wondered the same about them. There was a ridiculous video about which pop singers they liked, with Nicholas Soames claiming to like Dido. Three years later I was at the conference when George Osborne stood up and said the Tories would raise the inheritance cap ceiling to £1m. It wasn’t pre-briefed. Everything changed in that moment. You can’t see the tide turning until it happens.

This is very true. Labour were the ‘almost but not quite’ party for many years under Kinnock, and they appeared at the time to be pretty much unelectable. John Smith moved the needle but it was Blair and Brown who really understood how to win elections. Plus the Tories had been in for 18 years by that point and the scandals were mounting up so the country was ready for a change.

We’ll get to that point again with this government. If not 2024 then the next time round.

[quote Tillsforthrills]@ilovesooty

unfortunately, many women that would be inclined to vote labour now will not - in what way do you find this to be a small matter in deciding their electability?[/quote]
It's a small matter to me when compared to my priority of getting this government out.

It's now become impossible to have any discussion about how the current government is failing the electorate and how wider changes in society might be implemented by a change of government without the discussion becoming about self ID to the exclusion of anything else.

Hopefully not until they know what a woman is

@ilovesooty - shockingly, women care very much about women's rights, and this makes Labour unelectable to a lot of women.
Don't be so quick to dismiss us.

@AgentProvocateur

Not now that they’ve alienated 50% of the population by their inability to define a woman.

Which makes the assumption that all females will vote on self ID grounds.

Every thread about voting Labour is immediately taken over by posters who say they wouldn't vote for them on the basis of definition of a woman. I consider myself a feminist and am concerned about things like safe spaces for women but I would still vote Labour as I have other priorities when I vote.

I would be interested to know if there has been any actual polling on whether this issue would in fact lead to a reduction of numbers voting Labour. I never hear anyone say anything about it in real life and wonder if the number of people in demographics outside of MN who would actively choose to vote Labour because of their stance on trans rights would outweigh those who wouldn't? Presumably the Labour Party itself think so.

It might be a small matter to you @ilovesooty but not to many people, myself included

The current Labour Party seems very out of touch with the concerns of ordinary working people on many levels. It’s peculiar.

I agree with you @raspberryjamchicken. Interesting points.

@TooBigForMyBoots

Not until they know what a woman is!! You need to ask Conservative candidates too. Plenty of them have swallowed the TWAW line.

Tory MPs who preach TWAW are in the minority though.

Labour MPs can't even say what a woman is and that's pretty much all of them. Pathetic losers they are.

I doubt it. They have lost their class analysis and replaced it with identity politics.

I left the LP after they started struggling with the definition of woman and therefore needs of the female class.

There are a few MPs in the LP who I respect but I refuse to vote for them now.

@x2boys

I can't stand Tony Blair for lots of reasons However the reason why he got in was because he really did make people believe that things could only get better ,and they did for a while plus he had charisma, I can't see any of the current shadow cabinet doing what Tony Blair did .

Yes, I was too young to vote at the time but even I was aware of the optimism Tony Blair brought, it was just about voting for someone not as shit as the tories; it was voting for him and new Labour. Now they don't have that, I don't think many people feel overly inspired by Kier. They should get back to their roots, remember the ethos they were founded on and find a leader who people believe in. I agree its wild that they still don't stand much chance against this horrendous government, but they don't seem to be helping themselves much- this should be an easy easy win.

Was not just about*

How can there be any wider changes in society that benefit women, when Labour can’t or won’t even say what a woman is?

I’m a lifelong Labour voter and I just will not be able to bring myself to vote for them in their current state.

The sex/gender/self ID one is interesting.

My pondering would be — in the context of a general election, when the focus is often on economic issues — is it enough of a factor for enough people to significantly shift the result?

Obviously on MN there are going to be a significant number of people for whom this single issue is a vote-changer. But more broadly? I don’t know. (And that’s a genuine ‘I don’t know’ because I genuinely have no idea.)

The SNP are strongly and outwardly pro self ID etc and they keep winning and it’s not all men voting for them.

@ZaraSizeMedium

How can there be any wider changes in society that benefit women, when Labour can’t or won’t even say what a woman is?

I’m a lifelong Labour voter and I just will not be able to bring myself to vote for them in their current state.

So you're quite happy to see the Conservative Party reelected? How have they benefited or protected women while in government?