Will Labour ever get back in?

[Blueblossompinksky]

My understanding is that the labour majority was in part because of the Scottish vote, which seems to have gone to the SNP.

I realise it’s unlikely that the Tories will get back in with such a large majority as 2019 but will there actually be enough seats for Labour to win?

They don't know what a woman is. David Lammy thinks men can grow cervixes.

To be fair I don't know how Lammy keeps getting elected, he's a racist idiot.

Genuine question - can a black man be racist?

Having said that, the erasure of women's biological identity and rights is pretty fundamental to many people. Again, if you actually listened and engaged you might grasp this.

Biological identity and sex based rights is fundamental many people @TheKeatingFive. Look at the Conservative party record. How many people presented as Trans/non binary when Labour were last in power? How many do now, after a decade of Tories?

A week after Starmer blustered through the question of what a woman is, PM Johnson did the same on GB News and refused to say that only women have a cervix. Penny Mordaunt, Crispin Blunt and other Conservative MPs, councillors and members are full on TWAW!

The Conservative Party don't care what a woman is because they don't care about women.🤷‍♀️ They're happy to let all the press focus on this issue be on Labour because it's a vote loser. But don't kid yourself that the Conservatives will protect sex based rights. They won't.

@Fluffymule

There are dozens of these examples of Labour MP quotes to be found now, but this one was from today. A female Labour MP (Warrington North), telling women to rejoice in being beaten by biological males in sport, and to 'pipe down' and stop being 'transphobic'.

Not a shred of concern, compassion or 'kindness' for the girls robbed of their achievements.

This is a party position. Kier Starmer has set out his stall by coming off the fence in the past few weeks. They don't deserve women's votes.

I think if you went to a working class pub in Warrington to discuss the Lia Thomas then the customers would be baffled that this person with a 6ft+ male body and a cock and balls is being lauded by their own MP as a wonderful and inspiring sportswoman.

I really hope Labour get in. I wouldn’t have voted for Corbyn (who came with Momentum) but I would vote for Kier. The Tories have really shown just how little regard they have for people who are struggling with the cost of living crisis. Spend on defence is also important for me. If Russia does take over Ukraine then that leaves only a few small countries between us and them and if Putin decides to invade anymore beyond Ukraine then I would not like to have a government that puts defence on the back burner.

I don't believe the Conservative party care about women's rights but they are the only party at the moment who are not planning to introduce self ID as law. It will be harder to reverse a law than to prevent a policy becoming law. I cannot vote for any party who does not recognise biological sex. How could anyone argue, in a meaningful way, that a policy disproportionately disadvantages women if the category "women" includes both males and females.

Defacto self ID under the conservatives has caused incredible harm to women but until it becomes law we can still use the legal system to challenge the harm done, we will not be able to do that if a male can be legally recognised as female based on their say so alone. The conservatives will simply give women time to keep making our case as long as they don't include self ID in their next manifesto.

It's a bit like deciding which bread you'd like your shit sandwich to be made with, there are no palatable options.

"a few small countries " between us and Ukraine @Cheesecakeandwineinasuitcase. You need to look at a map.

Self ID is only on the table at all because of the Conservatives and their GRA reform.

I don’t like being told women’s rights aren’t important enough to determine my vote. That I should put my concerns to the back of the line for more important issues. Women deserve equality and it appears we won’t get it unless we insist on it (including with our votes). You wouldn’t expect someone gay to vote for a party with homophobic policies. I’ll look at the best option when the next GE comes, but I won’t vote for Labour (as I usually would) when their policies are so damaging to women.

@Porcupineintherough

"a few small countries " between us and Ukraine *@Cheesecakeandwineinasuitcase*. You need to look at a map.

I have

The Tory bots really do play a blinder on these kinds of issues, it was exactly the same with Corbyn and the anti-semitism.
They find an issue the know people are passionate about and then push the message of "I can't vote for Labour/Corbyn until they publicly sort ISSUE THATS A POLITICAL BOMBSHELL OR IMPOSSIBLE TO DISPROVE".

It's always an issue where all the other parties including the Tories are as bad but the discussion is NEVER framed as "I couldn't vote for the Tories until they know what a woman is", its ALWAYS framed as anti-labour specifically. The Tories will stay in forever because theres always an issue rumbling on that is the new "I could never vote Labour because".

And so you end up voting for the Tories even though they are no better on the one issue you really care about and probably worse on loads of others as well because you've had the message hammered in that this is a specifically Labour sticking point.

I also won’t vote SNP, Green, or Lib Dem because of it @StormTreader. If that helps 😃

*caveat, obviously I’m a Tory bot

The clue is in the bit “They find an issue the know people are passionate about”. Maybe try listening. This is how democracy is supposed to work. And I’m not a bot thanks.

@maltravers

The clue is in the bit “They find an issue the know people are passionate about”. Maybe try listening. This is how democracy is supposed to work. And I’m not a bot thanks.

True

The ability to ignore what people are saying is fairly well entrenched.

The Tory bots really do play a blinder on these kinds of issues

You can check my posting history, I'm not a Tory bot, thanks. You might like to check out some of the reasons I gave why I won't vote Labour. Then feel free to educate me why I would vote for a party that holds my sex in such utter contempt. I single Labour out, yes because I used to be a member, so the betrayal is greater. I'm not a Tory voter so they haven't sold me out. But I won't be voting for any of them, I feel completely homeless.

@StormTreader, it's straight out of the Brexit handbook. Stir up fear and pretend that only voting Leave/ Conservatives can save you. Load of bullshit of course, but as long as you keep repeating the lie, the voters will fall for it.

Labour aren't perfect, but the Tories have fucked this country over the last 11-12 years. Austerity, corruption, cronyism, elitism, allowing London to be a launderette for Russian money, awful covid response, awful Brexit plans, toxic MPs like Nadine Dorries, I could go on and on.
It's time to vote elsewhere.

Could you stop calling women bots, because we've had enough of Labour's bullshit, please? It's really quite rude.

Self ID is only on the table at all because of the Conservatives and their GRA reform.

This is true but they have now stated they do not intend to reform the GRA to introduce self ID. Labour, LibDems and Green do support self ID and think my concerns about safeguarding and women's rights make me a bigot so they don't want my vote. I'm happy not to burden any party with my vote when they dismiss women's concerns so aggressively.

The Tory bots really do play a blinder on these kinds of issues

I have never voted for them (yet) but keep on pretending this is a issue manufactured by bots on the internet. FFS will Labour supporters ever learn that decent people have concerns they would like the current party of opposition to respectfully engage with.

No. No they won't.

@StormTreader I've never voted Tory and doubt I ever will. But I'm not voting Labour (or Lib Dem or Green) until they change their stance on self ID. That's how important it is to me.

@FOJN, do not assume, ask all candidates for their views. The Conservatives say one thing one day and another the next. Penny Mordaunt was recently tipped as the next Tory leader. If she ever gets in to No.10, GRA reform with Self ID will be passed before she even puts the kettle on.

[quote TooBigForMyBoots]@StormTreader, it's straight out of the Brexit handbook. Stir up fear and pretend that only voting Leave/ Conservatives can save you. Load of bullshit of course, but as long as you keep repeating the lie, the voters will fall for it.[/quote]
Why don’t you try and listen to what many women are saying rather than do the typical Labour insult / belittle and bot part?

I take it Labour would like to have a chance of winning, not just hide behind typical insults

I’m constantly surprised by the number of threads about labour’s unsuitability to be in power when we have had a tory government for the last 11 years that is totally corrupt and inept. So many examples of their incompetence and dishonesty, pork barrel politics, dodgy deals that have affected every one in the UK and in particular woman but nope Labour are even worse. Very few threads about their corruption but one condemning labour every few weeks. I’ve been on MN years +15. It used to be a kind mildly left leaning site. Not any more.