Do I owe him money?

[isaidwhatisaid]

I was with my ex partner for 12yrs. When we met I owned a flat. We lived in that flat together for 5yrs. When I wanted to move I tried to buy another property with him but his credit score was low so I ended up having to buy a cheaper property myself. We lived in that new property for 6yrs before breaking up. During those years he paid me ‘half’ the bills. It was never actually half as he never had enough money because he was always getting fines and getting silly APR loans and generally mismanaging money. Asides from that, it was always me paying for holidays, restaurants etc. I paid for our IVF. Now he’s saying that I owe him money for him having contributed towards bills. AIBU by telling him to get lost?

I know you’ve said that you will seek legal advice, this is very important. Make sure you ask about if he can pursue this years down the line if he doesn’t do it now.

In the meantime, try to document what you can. Use banking statements to show what money he transferred you and what your outgoings were and how much your earned, if you ended up transferring money back to him when he was short, etc. A spreadsheet of this data will be very useful for you.

If he ever tries to pursue this legally himself, even through mediation first, then make sure you can set the scene for how much you were really responsible for in the relationship.

Also if he mentions pursuing this let him know that you will be pursuing support for the children through CMS. Any amount he thinks he is owed by you will be offset by having to pay child maintenance for the next decade plus.

@twinsetandpearl

Those that are saying you don't owe him money are legally wrong I'm afraid

He contributed towards half the mortgage therefore in law he has a financial claim/interest in the property

If roles were reversed and you were a man and he was the woman she would be advised to make a claim on MN - that's equality for you

If OP were a man his partner would be excoriated for leaving her kids and not paying a penny towards them.

Do you not recall studying this during the GDL, @crispmidnightpeace?

Property law isn't my thing, but I definitely recall studying it!

It sounds like he has paid towards the house and bills and therefore has a claim.

Wherever he lived, he would have had to pay gas, elec., Council tax, food etc. and it would have been a lot more expensive than at yours. So you could say he owes you money. And if he used your bank card to buy himself luxuries, he really does owe you money.

BlueLight Aside thank goodness someone on here talking sense. I wish random people wouldn't try to give legal advice when they're clearly not qualified to do so!

@NoWordForFluffy

Do you not recall studying this during the GDL, *@crispmidnightpeace*?

Property law isn't my thing, but I definitely recall studying it!

Yes, it's similar to contract by habit and he could argue in court he has rights to the property but he sounds unlikely to bother and is instead trying it on for a handout which there is absolutely no contract for and thus he would not be entitled to, legally.

I know my bank statements online only go back so many years. I'm guessing this is standard?

I have no idea how long this data is kept by banks but, as much as you can, I would collate and keep evidence of:

1. How much he paid, and when. Do it month by month and, where there are months where he paid nothing, make sure you can prove that with a paper trail if you need to.
2. Whose name was on all the bills.
3. What bills you paid, when, and how much.

Print it all out, organise it, maybe do a table month by month showing outgoings broken down to utilities/insurance/mortgage/housekeeping, and what if anything he paid. Note also significant one off expenses for the property - roof leaks, new bathrooms, whatever - and who paid for them. Make sure you have the papertrail to back it up. Then tuck it in a folder somewhere and forget about it.

This is all to undermine any claim he may make in future that he was paying half the mortgage and expenses, regular as clockwork, honest your honour.

And claim maintenance. Partly because it's your kids' money and they're entitled to it. But also because if he doesn't pay it (likely!) you could set that against any debt any court in the future might decide you owe him.

His name wasn't on the mortgage or deeds
So how can he ever claim any money?
If he wanted, he should have got married and/ or on the mortgage

He can't ask retrospectively

I'm not a lawyer, but he will have a claim on the house as he contributed. It's one of those murky areas of law (where you pay thousands In legal fees)
I think parents that contribute for ten years should have a claim, man or women. My friend just got evicted from her home as she never paid any bills. Her ex was clued up on property law.

He may have a claim on some money bc he paid towards the bills/mortgage for11 years but can he prove it for a start?

And also - if he was paying "towards the mortgage" unless that mortgage had his name on it, he was paying rent.

Otherwise all the lodgers all over the world would have claims on the houses they've lived in.

@ExMachinaDeus

He may have a claim on some money bc he paid towards the bills/mortgage for11 years but can he prove it for a start?

And also - if he was paying "towards the mortgage" unless that mortgage had his name on it, he was paying rent.

Otherwise all the lodgers all over the world would have claims on the houses they've lived in.

This lodger was sleeping with the landlord for eleven years, had two kids with her and got engaged

But legally ... in this country, I doubt he's have a claim in law. Or at least not one that could be easily argued, given that he rarely paid a fair share, and doesn't pay maintenance for his children.

I suggest that @isaidwhatisaid just ignores him. She's being far too nice!

@BlueLightsAside5

The law is clear

Married/civil partnership
Or
Single

You are both legally single

Engagement means nothing

Common law means nothing

You owe him nothing

Citizens advice & government websites will clearly state the differences between married & single

Put in a claim for child maintenance

This post is terrible advice!

Engagement means nothing

I'd suggest having a look at section 2 Law Reform (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1970. It provides that when a couple break off their engagement, property owned during the engagement is subject to the same rules as between husbands and wives. Also the gloriously named Dibble v Pfluger [2010] EWCA Civ 1005. Engagement is very important.

@Dillydollydingdong
BlueLight Aside thank goodness someone on here talking sense. I wish random people wouldn't try to give legal advice when they're clearly not qualified to do so!
And you're just making it worse! Don't encourage her. Whatever makes you think she's qualified, except that she's saying what you want to hear? The advice is positively dangerous.

I'm sorry that my previous comment was hard to hear, maybe too harsh and blunt. Maybe I was projecting a bit, because I had an ex who kept bothering me for money after we had well and truly broken up. Bit of a different scenario, he had a drug addiction and was desperate to fund it any way he could, hence asking me for money still. He knew when I got paid each month and the last time (yes, I had stupidly lent/given him money before) he asked for money he came round to my new boyfriend's flat and knocked on the door. How embarrassing for him, was that? But it was the addiction talking. So I went outside, to take it away from my new fella's door, and not quite shouted at him, but was very firm, in saying you are to stop this, do not ask me for money ever again, this has been going on for months since we split and I'm not having it any more. He got the message and stopped doing that. In fact that formed part of him hitting his rock bottom, then he got a place in rehab and cleaned his whole act up, clean and sober ever since, as far as I know, moved away and got married to a lovely woman. What I'm thinking is you will likely be doing your ex more of a favour by not supporting him in any way, and in fact making him support his and your children. Not guaranteed, of course, but if it makes him hit a bit of his own rock bottom, just maybe he will 'grow the fuck up', as you said. Good luck.

If that was the case

No home owner would share with a non home owner ever

Because the home owner would be scared that someone would make a claim on their property

@BlueLightsAside5

If that was the case

No home owner would share with a non home owner ever

Because the home owner would be scared that someone would make a claim on their property

What, no person ever made a bad decision? Is this your first day on Mumsnet? 🤣

In my divorce case Barclays were absolutely fantastic they manage to retrieve bank statements from 2011 for me.

I’ll be honest there’s no way I would let any man move in with me and contribute to Sam Owen to every month by direct debit or bank transfer for exactly this reason it would be very much a case of no names on any bills no names on any council tax and you pay for the shopping every week and all the meals out and the treats.

I have no idea who Sam Owen is that was meant to say direct debits 🤦‍♀️

Based on what you say, you don’t owe him a penny. He would necessarily have incurred the similar expenses (rent, bills etc) if he wasn’t living with you.

He would only have a possible claim if he:

a)had provided money towards the purchase price of the house, or
b)was named on the mortgage, or
c) (possibly) had made significant improvements to the home out of his own pocket (routine gardening, decorating, minor DIY doesn’t count as any tenant would be expected to the same without acquiring a beneficial interest in the house), or
d) could prove to the court’s satisfaction that you intended him to share the beneficial interest in the home with him (highly unlikely if a),b) or c) doesn’t apply).

@crispmidnightpeace so you do now agree that he could argue for it in court?

FWIW I also think he’s chancing his arm and I don’t thing he has a strong case at all.
But we cannot, on the facts given, say that he has no case.

You’re right that there’s no written contract under which to bring his case - but he doesn’t need one.

Though a PP made the excellent point that we’re all assuming a U.K. related jurisdiction here!

(GDL, College of Law, York. Cannot remember my individual marks but didn’t get less than 60% in any - include Contract and Trusts!)

@Dillydollydingdong

BlueLight Aside thank goodness someone on here talking sense. I wish random people wouldn't try to give legal advice when they're clearly not qualified to do so!

@Dillydollydingdong what qualifications does BlueLightAside have? And how do you know?

[quote Cocomarine]**@crispmidnightpeace* so you do now agree that he could* argue for it in court?

FWIW I also think he’s chancing his arm and I don’t thing he has a strong case at all.
But we cannot, on the facts given, say that he has no case.

You’re right that there’s no written contract under which to bring his case - but he doesn’t need one.

Though a PP made the excellent point that we’re all assuming a U.K. related jurisdiction here!

(GDL, College of Law, York. Cannot remember my individual marks but didn’t get less than 60% in any - include Contract and Trusts!)[/quote]
Property rights, not cash.

The question was 'do I owe him money' the answer is no. If the question was 'could a claim be made to rights to my property via his behaviour?' the answer would be yes. If the question were around the possibility of success the answer would again be different.

Legally he might be able to make a claim (if he had the cash)

Morally I can't see a leg to stand on.

I'm more than a year into trying to split from my ex, and we're about to sign on the deal I offered from the very start (I worked it out 3 ways, honestly very fairly - to him)

I think having been through this, I would visit a solicitor for whatever the piece of paper would be that would have him commit to a full and final settlement, then offer him a couple of grand or whatever feels like the amount he's angling for, to sign it.