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AIBU?

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Original poster

Part 2: Female swimmers beaten by transgender athlete stage podium protest at ‘unfair’ result (

619 replies

pombear · 19/03/2022 20:38

Hope you don't mind whytcvv just posting here as your thread reached the limit for posts

Posting your original OP here:- Ignore my previous thread-start as it didn't include important title"

whytcvv
When will the rules change as I completely agree this is unfair and I expect that you will all largely agree with me.

For anyone that doesn't agree, please explain your reasoning to help me better understand.

This reminds me of the weightlifting story from last year.

People that are born female and people who are born male should not be competing in these events together. Our physical bodies are not comparable.

Have as many genders as you can think of, but there are only two possible sexes that you can be born as and that is what eligibility in these competitions should be based on.

AIBU

Link to previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4508526-female-swimmers-beaten-by-transgender-athlete-stage-podium-protest-at-unfair-result

OP posts:
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23
ButYouBetterNotTakeItFromMe · 24/03/2022 14:18

NC to avoid identifying my sources but even so I just thought better of the fairly detailed post I just wrote and deleted it. Which says it all really doesn't it.
But suffice it to say that the happy smiling rainbow cycling world only exists in British Cycling official communications as far as I can tell. In the real world there are a lot of angry women riders, coaches, parents, fans, you name it. Fingers crossed for change...

334bu · 24/03/2022 14:21

Like is it possible that these men are transitioning just to be successful within the womens sport?

How would you know? Probably not at the minute , although there are numerous examples of male people who identify as women being able to extend their sporting life after transition. However, given the financial rewards that are now available in female sport and the willingness of certain countries to damage their athletes by introducing forced doping regimes, I would imagine that it could very well happen

Beowulfa · 24/03/2022 14:21

@TheKeatingFive

Nice to see Sonia O Sullivan add her voice to the debate.

www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/sonia-o-sullivan-transgender-athletes-cannot-be-allowed-to-compete-in-women-s-sport-1.4834586

I notice it is women if a certain age speaking sense on this topic.

Thanks for that. I used to love watching Sonia race.

Imagine how genuinely stunning and brave it would have been for Thomas to compete in the men's team as a non-stereotypical man.

DrSbaitso · 24/03/2022 14:25

Retired athletes don't have to worry about losing sponsorship or being sanctioned.

TheKeatingFive · 24/03/2022 14:30

Retired athletes don't have to worry about losing sponsorship or being sanctioned.

Thank god for that

DrSbaitso · 24/03/2022 14:33

They can still be hit with a ton of abuse and threats, though.

RachelGreeneGreep · 24/03/2022 14:33

@DrSbaitso

Retired athletes don't have to worry about losing sponsorship or being sanctioned.
It's good to see some of them speaking out.

Another here who is a big fan of Sonia.

EmperorsNewClothesBS · 24/03/2022 14:34

‘Imagine how genuinely stunning and brave it would have been for Thomas to compete in the men's team as a non-stereotypical man’

How very true!

iRun2eatCake · 24/03/2022 14:35

So... a man who is mediocre at professional sport and who won't really achieve a high record/place ...can now become a woman just so he can be top...

It's pretty tragic really that someone has to go to such lengths and cheat ... just because they can't accept their not good enough in their original category.

I feel embarrassed for Lia that she's so desperate to be top at something.

Maybe, as well as having testosterone levels within a range - they should also have undergone the surgery necessary to loose the penis.... this would then show how they really are a woman...

DrSbaitso · 24/03/2022 14:36

It's still a male body with a comprehensive advantage, even if you mess with the hormones and remove the penis. A castrated man is not a woman.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 24/03/2022 14:46

Imagine how genuinely stunning and brave it would have been for Thomas to compete in the men's team as a non-stereotypical man.

I can only think that most people would be out there, cheering on Thomas for being bold enough to take on the tasks of defying stereotypes and broadening the bandwidth of what it means to be a man.

iRun2eatCake · 24/03/2022 14:48

I totally agree. I think that if penis removal was required, that this issue wouldn't arise

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 24/03/2022 14:58

@iRun2eatCake

I totally agree. I think that if penis removal was required, that this issue wouldn't arise
Between 2004 and 2015, penis surgery was required for male transitioners to compete in the women's category in the Olympics. The rule was removed too late for it to factor into squad picks for the 2016 Olympics. During this period, no male transitioners ever did qualify.

It's been not a shock to us all that within a couple of training cycles of that rule's removal, male transitioners featured at the very next Olympics held in 2021.

SecondRow · 24/03/2022 15:01

Sonia O'Sullivan is genuinely one of Ireland's finest athletes AND human beings.

I'm imagining a girl out there now who should become the household name for my daughter's generation but we never hear of her because she is knocked out of some qualifying heat by a Lia or an Emily.

Thank you Sonia for speaking up today.

TheKeatingFive · 24/03/2022 15:06

I'm imagining a girl out there now who should become the household name for my daughter's generation but we never hear of her because she is knocked out of some qualifying heat by a Lia or an Emily.

This is such a sad thought.

And I honestly don't understand why people are brushing it away.

SecondRow · 24/03/2022 15:22

Yes it can only be the failure to conceive of women and girls as fully human with the same rights to go out and pursue their wants and needs as well as their dreams. And internalised misogyny means we can all be guilty of being distracted by a male's problems and lose focus on the consequences for women.

TheKeatingFive · 24/03/2022 15:29

Yes it can only be the failure to conceive of women and girls as fully human with the same rights to go out and pursue their wants and needs as well as their dreams.

It's a big problem that these women haven't been focused on.

It's a general truth that people get behind individuals stories rather than more abstract ideas.

Thomas gets all the attention when the girls who will miss out as a result are marginalised and silenced. These stories need to come to the fore.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 24/03/2022 15:56

@SecondRow

Sonia O'Sullivan is genuinely one of Ireland's finest athletes AND human beings.

I'm imagining a girl out there now who should become the household name for my daughter's generation but we never hear of her because she is knocked out of some qualifying heat by a Lia or an Emily.

Thank you Sonia for speaking up today.

This.
Dinosauria · 24/03/2022 16:06

@TheKeatingFive

I'm imagining a girl out there now who should become the household name for my daughter's generation but we never hear of her because she is knocked out of some qualifying heat by a Lia or an Emily.

This is such a sad thought.

And I honestly don't understand why people are brushing it away.

Why women are brushing this away #bekind
TheKeatingFive · 24/03/2022 16:09

Why women are brushing this away #bekind

God I know. It's so depressing.

Why are women championing Lia's/Emily's rights to an easy win over the next generation of Sonia's/Sharon's rights to a fair chance?

ButYouBetterNotTakeItFromMe · 24/03/2022 16:10

My DC has 2 fairly distinct friendship groups, schoolfriends and sports friends, and says that attitudes on this subject vary hugely between the 2 groups. The sporty group (both girls and boys) are almost all broadly GC in their outlook, even though they might not recognise the label.The general group of schoolfriends have well and truly bought into the whole TWAW ideology and are desperate to be collected asked to join the school's invitation only LGBTQIA+ Club as an ally (DC calls it The Slug Club!).
I wonder why there is such a difference? Maybe it is because the sporty kids see it as something directly relevant to them, or because the physical differences are clearer to them. I don't know.
I do think (or at least hope) there is going to be a kick back from the sports world which will hopefully start a wider rethinking of these issues. The concept of say, men in women's prisons, is something that doesn't touch directly on many people's lives so is easily ignored even though it is so important. But sport is a big part of many people's lives and could give society the wake up call that is needed.

Dinosauria · 24/03/2022 16:31

I wonder why there is such a difference? you answer your own question with regards to the two groups in school. Humans have an innate desire to belong. Those involved in sport already belong, the other group want to belong (to the invitation only club wtaf, who decides..)

TheKeatingFive · 24/03/2022 17:15

The tactics used to get women on side have been jaw dropping really.

Firstly a dishonest narrative that supporting trans rights (at any cost) is the next step in the fight for equality and progress, exactly akin to gay rights, what nice, modern, progressive people stand for. With a smattering of flimsy 'science' thrown in. Some blatant gaslighting. Oh and did we mention #bekind.

Then ferociously aggressive and bullying tactics to silence anyone who questions that. Where #bekind is nowhere to be fucking seen

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 24/03/2022 17:23

The tactics used to get women on side have been jaw dropping really..

Forced teaming, conflation of issues, and the Denton Playbook have been very powerful. So very powerful that it's become automatic for women to cast aside any sense of ethics, compassion, kindness, or even basic common sense when they're acting to diminish the rights of themselves and other women.

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/the-dentons-document?s=r

georgarina · 24/03/2022 18:45

@whytcvv

Is there a trend with trans people changing their gender in competitive sport? Like is it possible that these men are transitioning just to be successful within the womens sport? Or is that a bit of a leap?

Genuine question.

All it takes is a year of hormones and you get to become a world record breaker. Why would it be a leap to assume people would do that?