Female swimmers beaten by transgender athlete stage podium protest at ‘unfair’ result

[whytcvv]

When will the rules change as I completely agree this is unfair and I expect that you will all largely agree with me.

For anyone that doesn't agree, please explain your reasoning to help me better understand.

This reminds me of the weightlifting story from last year.

People that are born female and people who are born male should not be competing in these events together. Our physical bodies are not comparable.

Have as many genders as you can think of, but there are only two possible sexes that you can be born as and that is what eligibility in these competitions should be based on.

AIBU

Don't know how to add poll.

Then you pitch like with like, because yes, height or weight alone or even in combination, isn't the only factor.

Like for like = male with male and female with female.

This is not a hard concept.

Look at the way para-sports are done to try and put like with like/against like. Why can't it be done that way?

What para sport has males competing against females?

Or, I guess some folk do not want any solution other than banning transgender competitors from sports.

I think you might need to drop the hyperbole. Not one person is ‘banning’ any trans person. Transitioned males would still be eligible to compete against males, and if transitioned females are not dosing on testosterone, they can compete with females.

Your hyperbolic claim shows you have really not done any research into this topic.

We can decide that ‘inclusion’ is the most important thing in sport (when was elite sport ever about inclusion, though?).

But we then have to be absolutely clear that that is 100% at the expense of ‘fairness’.

Inclusion or fairness?

It cannot be both.

I don’t think it is inclusive when its excluding women

So its not inclusive OR fair

I guess some folk do not want any solution other than banning transgender competitors from sports

That's unnuanced. There's nothing to stop competitors from competing with their own sex class, subject to contextual considerations. E.g., in general, anyone who take supplemental testosterone does not compete because of the general catchall against performance enhancing drugs and that has nothing to do with people's preferred identities etc.

I gave the example above of a marathon that offered a NB class.

Interesting article in The Economist on the subject.

“This newspaper believes it is almost always unfair to allow transgender women to compete in women’s sports... Sports must therefore choose between inclusion and fairness; and they should choose fair play... One way to make that clear would be to replace the “men’s” and “women’s” categories with “open” and “female” ones. The first would be open to all comers. The second would be restricted on the basis of biology.”

I guess some folk do not want any solution other than penises on every winner’s podium.

Why did this get moved again? It's like a yo-yo.

The emperor has no clothes.

YANBU. TRAs literally have no logical argument to defend this. I say this as someone who used to think it was transphobic to not allow trans women to call themselves women. When I actually understood the issue my views completely changed.

The emperor has no clothes.*

Does have a place on a podium though.

Can one of you people who is trying to claim that we are all bigots who hate trans people and want to ban them please answer this?

You know there are only two sexes. You know fine well how to tell one from the other and you know fine well what the male athletic advantage is. You know it and we know you know it, and you know we know you know it. And you know trans people are welcome to compete in their correct sex class.

So...why?

What exactly are you trying to achieve with this mass lie that you know is a lie?

Do you think it's the next step in LGBT rights and it makes you progressive? But how do you square that with trampling over women's equal opportunities?

You know you're talking nonsense and that we are right and that Lia et al do not belong there. You know an identity isn't a sexed body. So what are you trying to do?

Can I identify as having no arms or legs and compete in the swimming at the Paralympics? Whilst strolling in with my arms and my legs on actual full view? Obviously not because it would be so ridiculous that people would laugh in my face and probably get my mental health checked out that I think it’s ok…

Why has this been moved from AIBU?

@YetDespiteTheLookOnMyFace

Can I identify as having no arms or legs and compete in the swimming at the Paralympics? Whilst strolling in with my arms and my legs on actual full view? Obviously not because it would be so ridiculous that people would laugh in my face and probably get my mental health checked out that I think it’s ok…

I think this a lot too.

@MsGoodenough

Why has this been moved from AIBU?

So it has!

Can we all identify as cycling men, whilst in fact being car driving women, and register on Strava. See how many segment records we can annihilate. It's wouldn't be cheating after all!

If Lia Thomas is a woman, why is she parading around on poolside with her cossie down around the waist?

The race suits are crazy tight and uncomfortable around the shoulders. At meets many women have a bikini type top to put on in between races so they can pull the straps down. Lia doesn’t have breasts so presumably doesn’t feel the need to do this

@Selkiesarereal

I am glad that this thread has been allowed to stay in aibu rather than moved to the feminist section as hopefully this will help other women to see what feminists have been shouting about and why, it’s not just about toilets is about the creep into every part of our lives as women and the very real consequences this has, in this case, female swimmers not a chance of ever winning again.

It's been moved

Hang on. This was doing very well as an AIBU. Why's it been moved?

If I'm a mother of a swimmer who's got up at 5am for the last three years to facilitate my daughter training hard to do well at swimming, and I'm concerned about this issue - I'm not permitted to describe it as an 'am I being unreasonable' issue?

If I'm a dog owner and got shouted at in the park about my dog, and want to put it in AIBU, will you be swiftly be moving my AIBU into the doghouse area?

If I have a parking issue, and mention I like my car - is there a 'car' area that you'lll swiftly move me to?

@nolongersurprised

If Lia Thomas is a woman, why is she parading around on poolside with her cossie down around the waist?

The race suits are crazy tight and uncomfortable around the shoulders. At meets many women have a bikini type top to put on in between races so they can pull the straps down. Lia doesn’t have breasts so presumably doesn’t feel the need to do this

I'm well aware of that. My point is that if LT is a woman, then this would not be done!

Presumably some mods are on one side of the gender debate whilst others are on the other side.

Male bodies don’t belong in womens sports.

No, thank you.

Great thread

Allowing males who identify as women to compete as women is the opposite of fairness and equality. Save women's sport.