Female swimmers beaten by transgender athlete stage podium protest at ‘unfair’ result

[whytcvv]

When will the rules change as I completely agree this is unfair and I expect that you will all largely agree with me.

For anyone that doesn't agree, please explain your reasoning to help me better understand.

This reminds me of the weightlifting story from last year.

People that are born female and people who are born male should not be competing in these events together. Our physical bodies are not comparable.

Have as many genders as you can think of, but there are only two possible sexes that you can be born as and that is what eligibility in these competitions should be based on.

AIBU

Don't know how to add poll.

I presume it has been mentioned before on 34 pages somewhere, about wef? re set?

Nothing to do with fair or not fair.
Or common sense or 100 other things.

@QuebecBagnet

And according to the other swimmers this person frequently drops their towel in the changing room making it very clear to all that they still have a penis. So now some of the women don’t want to get changed there. Why would this swimmer do that?

That is absolutely offensive. No woman expects to see that in a female only changing room.

Intersex is a separate issue. Lia is a biological MAN. Stop bringing intersex or other genetic things into it. It is unfair and also degrading of the women to be told to shut up about being uncomfortable. It is disgusting and harmful.

Well said @maddening

@viques no I actually was told 'way to be a misogynist, dude' because when someone asked how it was demoralising to women I said it was because the other swimmers will feel like they'll never be able to win now - imagine working hard and making sacrifices and loving a sport that much, and then someone else strolling in and removing your chance at winning. Apparently me saying this means I think women are weak and incapable of winning anything.

Um.

@BootsAndRoots

As far as I can tell under the rules a man undergoing treatment for prostate cancer (so has to reduce his testosterone levels) would be classified as a woman.

A friend (Male) who had prostate cancer had to take female hormones, but he was still a big man, skeletally the same as before, maybe he had slightly smoother skin, but til the day he died was definitely all male.

Oh dear. The education system is worse than I feared. It seems that no biology is being taught at all. Certainly no critical thinking skills or even any understanding of what the words education and research actually mean. It is depressing.

For argument's sake, what about a transwoman who experienced gender dysphoria prior to puberty and was prescribed puberty blockers before taking female hormones?

I don't think anyone should be prescribed puberty blockers under any circumstances, so this isn't a situation that should come up.

@Couchbettato actually most of the posts are heartening, re: it just not being fair given Lia's previous ranking among male swimmers. But a lot of people are getting caught up in the idea of testosterone levels being a fair indicator, and me pointing out the advantages of male puberty didn't go down well.

Oh well.

The sex of a person is determined at the moment of conception.

Nothing to do with anything else

Some women have advantages over other women and some men have advantages over other men.

Well, of course. What has this got to do with anything? Ohhhh…. Here is that sly slip of language.

No. Transitioned males are not ‘women’. So your attempt at trying to say that saying by including males in ‘Women’s’ sport is just another ‘woman’ winning over other women is ridiculous.

Stick to facts.

You need to get out of what ever echo chamber you have been inhabiting to regurgitate this very tired trope onto this thread.

It is very tired and is very out dated.

Even trans researcher Joanne Harper has admitted that transitioned males have advantages over females that cannot be removed or reduced via testosterone.

Find a new argument because your other attempts are in no way convincing, logical or factually correct.

Some women have advantages over other women and some men have advantages over other men.

And most men have advantages over most women.

Can you really see nothing wrong with (for example) Usain Bolt competing against female sprinters just because he says he is a transwomen? You can't see anything wrong with Anthony Joshua punching women in the same circumstances? Really?

Why are you so womanphobic?

I'm surprised that's sports bodies even allow it.

The fact they have separate male and female team sports and separate qualifying and the races are different for males and females in timed sports shows that the biological differences have an effect.

If they honestly don't believe that a trans woman has an advantage in woman's sport over a biologically sex woman then they shouldn't have separate qualifying times or events for sex.

The sheer fact they allow people who identify as a different gender (when gender doesn't exist in biology and is a social construct) flys against everything they promote in sport.

I guess all we have to hope is that it doesn't really matter where you place in a college team - you need to be selected by world and Olympic programmes to race there for your country or be in a team for your country - and those bodies will not select biological males to race biological woman's events.

Here's Dr Emma Hilton, a developmental biologist, explaining why there are only two sexes:

twitter.com/fondofbeetles/status/1271379316291624961

@BIWI

Is it really true that Lia was parading around with their swimsuit round their waist? I've Googled but haven't come across any images of that.

I think we need to be careful here - along with stories about an 'erect penis' in the changing room - that we're reflecting what's actually happened.

The erect penis is obvious if you read between the lines of the article so obvious in fact my early 20s son commented on it and he can be quite oblivious on some things,but on this subject I'm proud to say he's completely peaked.

Some women have advantages over other women and some men have advantages over other men.

And the hard fact is that transitioned men do not stop being male. Sensitivity for the feelings of male people who transition is not a reason to destroy female people's sport or to not be able to speak the plain truth of it. Now we have male people who have decided to take this path, female people have been driven to the discourtesy of having to be plain spoken. It is not up to us to be nice, and not mention the harm to females in case of it not being something everyone wants to have to hear.

[quote Boredoutmymind]@CoastalWave
maybe look up intersex. There are not 2 sexes. Some people are born with 2 sets of genitals.

@Delectable i know height and weight changes. Didnt say it don't.

Some women have advantages over other women and some men have advantages over other men.
Banning trans athletes or ridiculing them is not on.

Most posters on mumsnet are transphobic and dont even understand what gender dysphoria is.[/quote]
Hardly see that gender dysphoria is relevant Stonewall itself says you don't need to have gender dysphoria to be trans, and considering the majority of trans women retain their penis have no surgery and are completely male bodied they clearly have no problems with dysphoria

Which article? Sorry - I didn't see any article referenced, just people talking about it!

(BTW I'm not trying to defend or excuse Lia in any way - just want to be sure that we're not starting to amplify events)

Dignified protest by Emma Weyent & Erica Sullivan.

@itsgettingweird
Mine have all been deleted too.

You only have to look at Lia on the podium. Twice the size of the women. It's just a bloody insult. Cheating bastard.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swimming_at_the_2020_Summer_Paralympics_–_Qualification

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swimming_at_the_2020_Summer_Olympics_–_Qualification

For those saying people are arguing woman should train harder etc and that being a biological man makes no difference look at the above links for qualifying times for Olympics. Some screenshots below.

I've included the para swimming ones because my ds is an S9 classified swimmer. He does 28.40 50m free.

He's as likely to qualify as a woman for the woman's Olympics races as he is the mens S9.

These stats and times alone are evidence of sex based sport having a basis on biological sex for a reason. It's scary sports and college bodies are too scared to stand up for this. Since when was someone's truth and feelings based on fact above actual science?!

@BIWI

Which article? Sorry - I didn't see any article referenced, just people talking about it!

(BTW I'm not trying to defend or excuse Lia in any way - just want to be sure that we're not starting to amplify events)

In the magazine article one of the lasses in the changing room said he still had his male genitalia, still liked women as a sexual partner and that you could tell that he ‘obviously’ liked women

You know this is bad when even my DH said today to me ‘have you seen this, this is so bad’.

There is a South Park meme going viral on Twitter.

As a former competitive swimmer and a woman, I am beyond horrified.