To seek assurances that I’ll be put on a single sex ward?

[Thoosa]

Not single gender. Single sex.

Im due for one, maybe two, surgeries this year. I’m a DV and rape survivor.

I’m nervous.

We are all aware there are male care givers and maybe trans staff but they are DBS checked for goodness sake! This doesn't mean 100% protection but safeguards are in place already eg a chaperone for examination of female patients to protect the care giver AND the patient.
As for mtf passing? Take a look up thread. And there isn't a 'need' to 'pass' anyway as a person can identify as whatever they please. Doubters- pay particular attention to the Grace Lavery comments; harassment isn't a compliment or validation as most of us have experienced this pain in the arse behaviour from males since we were children. Yes children. It's so common and seems to be acceptable. My teen DD has been leered at and it makes me sick. And angry. As for the 'suck my ' words fail me. Vile.
This is not a trans thing. It's a Female vulnerability thing due to male attitudes.
I know- NAMALT yes I know that. I live with lovely men but the woman in the street (or hospital bed) doesn't know that.
Please stop with the 'transphobic' thing; it's designed to shut down the debate.
And it's a poor retort.
And please have some respect for victims like @Thoosa and @risefromyourgrave because some of these comments are sickening.

The NHS are LGBT-friendly (hence the rainbow lanyards) so there’s no guarantee unless you pay for a private room you’d have no idea of the gender identity of the other patients.

It would be like saying you only want female staff to attend to you or be present in theatre.

@FateHasRedesignedMost

The NHS are LGBT-friendly (hence the rainbow lanyards) so there’s no guarantee unless you pay for a private room you’d have no idea of the gender identity of the other patients.

It would be like saying you only want female staff to attend to you or be present in theatre.

So, you're saying it's a reasonable request then.

Women actually are entiled to specify female staff only. This is a teasonable adjustment for women with ptsd. You realise that PTSD can be classed as a disability because the impact on one's life is that great?.

@Bintymcbintface

Not to be an idiot or anything but... If there were trans people on your ward, how would you know? They're not going to be wandering around naked or anything, there are a great deal of female "passing" mtf trans people, unless you saw their nethers you'd have no idea that they were trans...

This is exactly it. I might not, but I’m not particularly interested in spotting men for myself or spotting trans people, or working out who is male and who isn’t. I don’t want to be doing my own scanning of my surroundings and I don’t want to be told private information about other patients.

I just want to be sure I’m in a singe sex environment - because that is safest in terms of sexual assault - and I think that should be the hospital’s job to ensure, in a sane world.

I’m aware that not all hospitals see it that way, though, so I was asking how to approach the hospital ahead of time.

@FateHasRedesignedMost

The NHS are LGBT-friendly (hence the rainbow lanyards) so there’s no guarantee unless you pay for a private room you’d have no idea of the gender identity of the other patients.

It would be like saying you only want female staff to attend to you or be present in theatre.

Yes I know. I feel a bit silly now for smiling at the hospital’s rainbow pedestrian crossing and being pleased at the LGBT-supporting efforts and not initially realising that this might signify something negative was going on in terms of women’s safety.

The two things should operate side by side.

It’s perfectly possible to retain single sex wards while still being welcoming to other minorities.

Single sex wards were perfectly normal before government cuts in the seventies. Labour's 1997 manifesto included a pledge to bring them back, because everyone had realised how awful it was for many people to be in a vulnerable state in a mixed ward.

For clarity, I'm using "ward" to mean "room with beds in", rather than the more modern use where a ward is a cluster of such rooms called "bays". It is those bays (wards in older hospitals) that should be single sex.

Yes, exactly this. It’s befuddling to those of us who heard the promise to restore single sex “wards” (or bays or whatever the modern group rooms are) and assumed it had been done and didn’t need admission for years. Then the reality of these new policies slowly dawns.

” It’s perfectly possible to retain single sex wards while still being welcoming to other minorities.”

Absolutely and for every vocal trans activist, there are many trans people who would be mortified to be considered that they share the same views.

The trans people I’ve worked with are actually more considerate than the average person because they know how challenging it can be to be so distressed in your own skin.

It's not extremely rare to get a single sex or gender ward as we don't allocate patients by sex/gender but instead by speciality.

That being said there are significant levels of paperwork involved with trying to place mixed sex people within the same bay, and in over ten years I've yet to see it happen unless it's a married couple in a double room.
This also means there's more wiggle room as you can turn 4 beds into a single sex bay if you're short of beds for one sex instead of having to change a full ward.
If you're in a bay, everyone in there should be female, there are set rules about distance between opposite sex bays and toilet access too.

In my experience trans patients are quite rare, but are usually placed in a side room, if one is available, and we really try hard to find one.
If its an elective operation, you're likely to be going onto a 'supergreen' ward, where there'll be a good chance the staff will know whose being admitted, we used to flag special requirements for patients who may need a side room / extra equipment etc. If you know the ward you'll be admitted to I'd think about emailing the ward manager, they'll be able to reassure you on specifics.

@Thoosa

Trans isn't the issue it's rapists being protected by hospitals that is the problem surely

Yes you’re right.

The NHS don’t seem to grasp that, though, and that is the real problem, I suppose?

There's also privacy and dignity, not just safety considerations.

I’m sorry for what you’ve been through op, and I completely understand how you are feeling.

I’m a nurse, and the only single sex ward in my hospital is gynae. Every other ward has single sex bays, and a toilet designated to that sex. So although you would be on the same ward as a man, you would only potentially pass them in the corridor.

However, limited bed spaces have meant very recently we have had to have mixed sex bays, and I had to put a male into a female bay. He urgently needed treatment and there were no other beds.
Hospitals get charged for mixing sexes in a bay, so it isn’t usually for long and it doesn’t happen very often, only when bed availability is very low.

My trust policy is that those who identify as female are entitled to be in a female bay as that is how they identify, even if they have a penis, regardless of how the females in the bay feel. Although they would not be told if the patient is trans, the trust is very strict on this.

The one female trans patient I have looked after, refused to be put in a female bay and requested a side room (back when there were beds available), as she didn’t want to risk anyone feeling uncomfortable by her presence.

Chances are you will be on an elective surgical ward, where they should specifically plan for female and male bays.

All I can suggest like others, is letting your consultant know, the ward you will be on pre and post op and even pals as well.

Best of luck op!

My trust also advise that putting a trans patient in a side room purely because they are trans, would be excluding and isolating them and is not acceptable.

My trust policy is that those who identify as female are entitled to be in a female bay as that is how they identify, even if they have a penis, regardless of how the females in the bay feel. Although they would not be told if the patient is trans, the trust is very strict on this.

So the policy of the trust is to put the feelings of males who identify as women above the safeguarding of women.

This is exactly what led to that poor woman being raped and then gaslit by the Trust when she reported it.

This nonsense has to stop because whilst most trans identifying males are not a danger to women (setting aside the issue of dignity and feelings of women concerned) predatory men can, and clearly do, use this to access women.

I think rather than causing trouble and making the job of overworked NHS staff harder, I’d just pay for a private room. That way you get what you need and NHS staff can get on with what they need to do.

@Holly60

I think rather than causing trouble and making the job of overworked NHS staff harder, I’d just pay for a private room. That way you get what you need and NHS staff can get on with what they need to do.

I hope you would extend the same to male who want special treatment in the NHS because they identify as trans.

It’s interesting to see how privileging male feelings above females seems to be unquestioningly baked into the nhs

Women actually are entiled to specify female staff only.

Not entirely accurate - women are entitled to ask for female staff only, whether that can actually be accommodated depends on whether all female staff are available. Surgery requires a large team, it's highly unlikely every single member of that team can be guaranteed to be a woman. And if you need a specialist and the only one currently available happens to be male, the hospital can't simply magic up someone female.

@Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky

It’s interesting to see how privileging male feelings above females seems to be unquestioningly baked into the nhs

Yes I think this is what gets to me the most, it's just so sexist.

Women are already at a disadvantage, compared to men, in access to health care.

Then even in hospital women's feelings about safeguarding and dignity and privacy come secondary to those of males who identify as trans. And when women suffer a direct harm as a result of these policies NHS staff have been instructed to cover up to protect the identity of the abuser.

It's so fundamentally anti women, I just can't see how it has been allowed to happen.

@Ionlydomassiveones

It's easier to put 1 patient in a side room than have a bay with upset patients. I've yet to come across a trans patient who actually wanted to be in either bay, out of not wanting people to feel uncomfortable.

It seems a reasonable adjustment to put 1 person into a side room and make everyone happy.

With no TV, no visitors and very little else going on the majority of patients I care for don't want a side room. They're isolating, lonely rooms and certainly nothing to get excited about.

My DH once spent the night on an all female bay in an NHS ward. He was caring for our severely disabled adult DD who had been admitted. As she was unable to communicate and had complex health issues, one of us needed to be with her. On this occasion I was not able to be there so he stayed all night. As far as I'm aware no one asked any of the other female patients whether they minded. This is not a Trans issue. I'm sure you wouldn't have felt comfortable with my DH being there - but I guess at least you'd have known he was a man. But if there were no side rooms available then there wouldn't have been a lot you could do (other than discharge yourself).

@Holly60

I think rather than causing trouble and making the job of overworked NHS staff harder, I’d just pay for a private room. That way you get what you need and NHS staff can get on with what they need to do.

Saying a rape victim is ‘causing trouble’ cos she’d rather not have an unknown man sleep next to her

Lovely…

I find this really concerning that patients are worried about coming into hospital. I am a manager of surgical services. I was recently asked to comment on the policy re single sex accommodation and raised my concerns with the director of nursing and equalities manager. One of my DCs identifies as non binary, so it's not like I am ignorant of the issues at hand. I absolutely agree we need to make spaces where trans folk feel safe but not at the detriment of women's rights and safety.

I was basically told to get back in my box, if you're not wearing a rainbow flag, you're just not en vogue.

If it's in any way reassuring, however, the number of surgical trans folk we have had on my wards I can count on one hand and we always provided a side room for these patients. Surgical wards are usually well managed with side rooms as they are usually trying to manage multiple infection risks to keep all patients safe.

Have you got a choice of provider? Some hospitals have only single rooms on elective surgical wards. For example on our general surgery elective ward we have 2x male bays, 2x female bays and 8 side rooms. The hospital up the road is all single occupancy cubicles. You could look to transfer if this was an option.

Looking at recent events I think it’s very clear from NHS policy and guidelines, that any male patient can be accommodated on a female only ward on their request. They don’t need to have ‘changed gender’. Simply stating they are a woman will ensure staff will not be able to question or prevent this.

Any female patients who complain or who are upset will be told all patients on the ward are female. Staff risk disciplinary action or their jobs otherwise.

I’m sorry OP but you are right to be wary. Safeguarding is subordinate to self ID in many healthcare settings now.

That's it in the nutshell.

Women's rights and safety are not en vogue. Women get back in your box.

@lifeturnsonadime

That's it in the nutshell.

Women's rights and safety are not en vogue. Women get back in your box.

I just don’t understand how we’ve got to this, I really don’t