To seek assurances that I’ll be put on a single sex ward?

[Thoosa]

Not single gender. Single sex.

Im due for one, maybe two, surgeries this year. I’m a DV and rape survivor.

I’m nervous.

[quote RoseslnTheHospital]@Piper22 transwomen don't stop being male just because of how the identify. Being male is in fact a necessary condition to be a transwoman.

I can't believe you are seriously comparing the risk of being in public places whilst well and not incapacitated/asleep with being in a hospital ward overnight. [/quote]
I can't believe you are seriously comparing the risk of being in public places whilst well and not incapacitated/asleep with being in a hospital ward overnight?

What are you talking about?

Men are more likely to be sex offenders than women are. I've never once denied that. But if it's sex offenders who are the concern, why is it only trans ones that posters are concerned about?

Because sex offenders will use any excuse that they can to access their victims. Men will literally choose careers that give them access to vulnerable people, usually women and/or children. What would they have to lose by saying they are a woman? Remember that don't actually have to change anything about themselves.

Let's take John Worboys for instance. If he was taken into a hospital at the moment, he would be put in a man's ward. If he decided he was a woman, he'd be put on the women's ward.

How is that right? What has actually changed? I know some are going to say, but he'd be supervised or whatever but that's not the point though, is it?

I feel sorry for genuinely trans people, they are getting caught up in this mess, but I don't see how denying that there's a problem and a conflict of rights helps them at all.

@Slowfoxfast

I'm not pretending to be speaking for all women *@risefromyourgrave*, I am talking about myself.

As for examples of trans women who have done terrible things, women do terrible things as well ( Rose West being one that comes to mind immediately.) I find it abhorrent that a minority group of people are all being tarnished with the same brush as a few aberrant examples.

Yes, some women have done terrible things. Not one woman in the entire history of humankind however has ever - ever - used their penis to penetrate the vagina/mouth/anus of another person without their consent.

And I can make that claim in 100% certainty because the possibility of a woman committing the act of rape (as opposed to being complicit in a rape committed by a man upon a third party) is nil, on account of it being impossible. Women don't have penises, you see.

The OP is a victim of male violence, therefore she is concerned about male violence. Comprender?

Only 10% of registered nurses are male, so yes having a male member of staff alone with female patients is statistically an unusual occurence.

Only around 1% of the population are trans, and many of those will be younger than the average hospital patient, so yes having a transgender person on a ward is statistically an unusual occurrence.

And you are aware that nurses aren't the only staff in hospitals? More than half of doctors are men, and last time I was in hospital, I'm fairly sure the only staff I was ever alone with were male porters.

@RoseslnTheHospital ah I see what you’re trying to say, as non sensical as it is. Male domestics, porters, nurses, doctors, care assistants and students all access female wards all throughout the night. Oh but it’s that poorly trans person who’s made their way into a hospital inpatient bed just to find women to sexually assault that you’ve got to worry about. Yeah right. Call a spade a spade, this is transphobia.

Black adult males are. Gay adult males are. Muslim adult males are. Trans adults males are.

Oh. I was really hoping you'd say that.
Guess what. My brother ticks two of those, so presumably he should be entitled to be placed on a women's ward then. And I'm massively discriminating against him when I kick him out when I'm getting changed. Right?

In reality, he would tell you to bog off if you told him so. He would tell you that his presence would encroach on women's dignity and privacy, and say that any man who argued that he should be in the women's was Very Dodgy Indeed.

Being a member of a subset of males that

I'm talking about being in low risk situations with male people, compared to being vulnerable and asleep/incapacitated in a ward.

I suppose the whole team involved in operating on a patient, plus any students and passing maintenance men might all collude to sexually assault female patients, but that seems unlikely don't you think? In comparison to a male patient being able to have unsupervised access to women in a ward overnight. Which is an obvious risk. Which is why males are not usually in shared sleeping accommodation with women. However the male identifies.

Being a member of a subset of males that experiences discrimination does not actually emasculate men.

Seriously, it doesn't.

P.S. if you give gay men automatic access to women's spaces, and tell women it's homophobic if they object, straight rapists will pretend to be gay.

I see that you really are pushing the agenda that women are unsafe already, as male staff have access to wards. So no other safeguarding or minimising of risk is necessary. All wards/bays should be mixed sex then?

@RoseslnTheHospital depends what you mean by unlikely. I’ve worked alongside two men who are currently serving prison sentences for sexual crimes against our patients (I’m a nurse). You’re sound so naive

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Black adult males are. Gay adult males are. Muslim adult males are. Trans adults males are.

Oh. I was really hoping you'd say that.
Guess what. My brother ticks two of those, so presumably he should be entitled to be placed on a women's ward then. And I'm massively discriminating against him when I kick him out when I'm getting changed. Right?

In reality, he would tell you to bog off if you told him so. He would tell you that his presence would encroach on women's dignity and privacy, and say that any man who argued that he should be in the women's was Very Dodgy Indeed.

Being a member of a subset of males that

You’ve missed the point entirely, which wasn’t anything to do with sexual violence

[quote Piper22]@RoseslnTheHospital ah I see what you’re trying to say, as non sensical as it is. Male domestics, porters, nurses, doctors, care assistants and students all access female wards all throughout the night. Oh but it’s that poorly trans person who’s made their way into a hospital inpatient bed just to find women to sexually assault that you’ve got to worry about. Yeah right. Call a spade a spade, this is transphobia.[/quote]
Like this poorly trans woman who managed to access child sexual abuse images from their hospital bed you mean?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8521787/amp/Paedophile-54-used-public-Wi-Fi-download-child-porn-hospital.html

P.S. if you give gay men automatic access to women's spaces, and tell women it's homophobic if they object, straight rapists will pretend to be gay.

It’s as though we’ve learned nothing from all the decades of “devout” monks, “dedicated” teachers, “kindly” clergy.

Sex offenders have always adopted or coopted identities and life paths that give them access to victims. That doesn’t make all clergy etc guilty or suspect.

Safeguarding is supposed to be about minimising risk regardless. Safeguarding is the key, not profiling.

Those who seem to think the OP is concerned about nothing or that “transphobia” is driving the thread, can you answer this?

Why was single sex provision established in the first place? Why have male and female hospital bays? Do you think that this principle is no longer necessary at all? If not, why not? Would you qualify this it all? And if it’s still necessary then why?

But if it's sex offenders who are the concern, why is it only trans ones that posters are concerned about?

@Siepie who said that it was? We've been quite clear that it doesn't matter how they identify, all males present the same potential risk. Since 1997 governments have recognised that risk and have made efforts to stop the practice of mixed bays. So most males were excluded from these spaces (no, it's not always possible but hospitals get fined when they don't comply). Now though there seems to be a nifty way around such barriers and we are concerned that people will exploit this.

You’ve missed the point entirely, which wasn’t anything to do with sexual violence

If your points, whatever they are, aren’t germane to sexual violence, you’re on the wrong thread.

@RoseslnTheHospital

I see that you really are pushing the agenda that women are unsafe already, as male staff have access to wards. So no other safeguarding or minimising of risk is necessary. All wards/bays should be mixed sex then?

No, it is you that is ignoring the risk posed by the reams of other men with who a woman is in contact with throughout the course of a hospital admission, in favour of marginalising one small subset of already stigmatised people who you can demonise

I was on a mixed mental health ward where there were seperate wings for men/women for the bedrooms. We had a man on the women's wing who was identifying as a woman. He was discharged and later admitted again and this time he was identifying as a man.

@Thoosa

You’ve missed the point entirely, which wasn’t anything to do with sexual violence

If your points, whatever they are, aren’t germane to sexual violence, you’re on the wrong thread.

You don’t get to dictate who can post what and to where on a public forum, especially when no guidelines are being broken.

@Piper22 you seem very binary in your thinking about risk. I said "unlikely" not impossible. Less likely. I am quite sure that your criminal colleagues took advantage of any situation where they were alone with vulnerable victims. Can you not see that increasing opportunities for males to be alone with vulnerable women increases risk, not decreases it?

@risefromyourgrave oh well done, you’ve found an isolated incident with which to tarnish a whole group of people, I.e the very backbone of prejudice and discrimination.

@Piper22 women can’t rape, women don’t have penises

You don’t get to dictate who can post what and to where on a public forum, especially when no guidelines are being broken.

Well, this is rich beyond belief.

We do remember the way you've spoken to OP since you started replying

You don’t get to dictate who can post what and to where on a public forum, especially when no guidelines are being broken

It is making me wonder why you’re posting so vigorously, tediously and irrelevantly on my thread, though.

How do you imagine you’re coming across?

[quote RoseslnTheHospital]@Piper22 you seem very binary in your thinking about risk. I said "unlikely" not impossible. Less likely. I am quite sure that your criminal colleagues took advantage of any situation where they were alone with vulnerable victims. Can you not see that increasing opportunities for males to be alone with vulnerable women increases risk, not decreases it?[/quote]
If that is your logic, do you think we should ban all male taxi drivers? Provide female chaperones for the journey?