Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To seek assurances that I’ll be put on a single sex ward?

337 replies

Thoosa · 18/03/2022 19:21

Not single gender. Single sex.

Im due for one, maybe two, surgeries this year. I’m a DV and rape survivor.

I’m nervous.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/03/2022 00:51

there are a great deal of female "passing" mtf trans people

Funny then that so few in the public eye, on social media etc would ever be assumed to be female.

JellySaurus · 19/03/2022 00:59

@Toddlerteaplease

They shouldn't tell anything else about anyone else's gender. That patient has a right to confidentiality as much as you do.
I doubt the OP has any interest in anyone's gender. Gender is irrelevant in this context, only sex. Sex matters.
Bintymcbintface · 19/03/2022 01:06

@Ereshkigalangcleg

there are a great deal of female "passing" mtf trans people

Funny then that so few in the public eye, on social media etc would ever be assumed to be female.

How many mtf trans people are in the public eye? I can only think of one and had no idea she was trans until I'd read it somewhere. Looks nothing like a man
Bintymcbintface · 19/03/2022 01:09

Shit, forgot about Caitlyn Jenner.... Doesn't count as passing imo

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 19/03/2022 01:13

@Bintymcbintface

Not to be an idiot or anything but... If there were trans people on your ward, how would you know? They're not going to be wandering around naked or anything, there are a great deal of female "passing" mtf trans people, unless you saw their nethers you'd have no idea that they were trans...
A surprisingly large fraction of this group seems to experience no dysphoria over strangers seeing their genitalia.
To seek assurances that I’ll be put on a single sex ward?
To seek assurances that I’ll be put on a single sex ward?
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 19/03/2022 01:21

Lauren Cox (btw has an identical twin brother), actor
Rachel Levine, Assistant Secretary of State for Health in the US.
Munroe Bergdorf, model

To seek assurances that I’ll be put on a single sex ward?
To seek assurances that I’ll be put on a single sex ward?
To seek assurances that I’ll be put on a single sex ward?
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 19/03/2022 01:23

Some other academics

To seek assurances that I’ll be put on a single sex ward?
To seek assurances that I’ll be put on a single sex ward?
To seek assurances that I’ll be put on a single sex ward?
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 19/03/2022 01:38

Emilia Decaudin, who successfully lobbied to eliminate a rule that a New York district had to have one female representative and one male representative, in order to allow Decaudin to run for the previously female-only seat. Decaudin won.

This is Emilia making an acceptance speech after winning. I find it rather apparent what sex Decaudin is, and so would anyone else unfortunate enough to have eyes.

Decaudin is proud of it and would like us to suck it.

No thank you.

www.lipstickalley.com/threads/male-wins-female-leadership-position-in-new-york-democratic-council.3649058/

To seek assurances that I’ll be put on a single sex ward?
To seek assurances that I’ll be put on a single sex ward?
DdraigGoch · 19/03/2022 01:52

@Featuredcreature

Expecting wards to be single sex is odd. I worked on wards 2005-2006 and wards weren't single sex apart from the obviously female ones. This is a strange hill to die on.
Single sex wards were perfectly normal before government cuts in the seventies. Labour's 1997 manifesto included a pledge to bring them back, because everyone had realised how awful it was for many people to be in a vulnerable state in a mixed ward.

*For clarity, I'm using "ward" to mean "room with beds in", rather than the more modern use where a ward is a cluster of such rooms called "bays". It is those bays (wards in older hospitals) that should be single sex.

DdraigGoch · 19/03/2022 01:57

And I'm honestly not being goady but if you're all in a communal ward recovering from surgery the person is less likely to be capable and would be identified, witnessed and arrested quickly.

@RealBecca how quickly? Within a year? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/17/hospital-told-police-patient-not-raped-alleged-attacker-transgender/

Pyewhacket · 19/03/2022 02:05

I work for the NHS and this is the reality of it

………… they can't assure anything as people are admitted and placed on clinical need only on speciality wards and then grouped in bays within the ward.

SD1978 · 19/03/2022 02:12

@lifeturnsonadime - I don't agree with it- that really wasn't clear and I apologise. Sadly stating the facts, which is they will have gender recognition 'trump' their request. They will put whoever they want in any ward, despite the OP's anxiety and that she can't change. NHS will support gender recognition over vulnerable female every time.

HalloHello · 19/03/2022 02:20

I used to work on a surgical ward, if you discuss this at your preassessment appointment, they can put a condition on your notes that when you're admitted, you would need a side room. We had this a lot for various reasons including trauma, anxiety etc. They should accommodate this and if not, refuse to be admitted. The headache of rescheduling is probably harder than finding you a side room. Hope you're ok.

SauceGirl · 19/03/2022 02:33

@PurgatoryOfPotholes
'Research into the matter indicates that in places like the UK, only ten per cent of men are committing all the rapes.'
Wow so in the UK there are four million rapists? Is that right?

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 19/03/2022 02:48

You should see the stats on the victims

31% of young women aged 18-24 report having experienced sexual abuse in childhood (NSPCC, 2011)

20% of women and 4% of men have experienced some type of sexual assault since the age of 16, equivalent to 3.4 million female and 631,000 male victims
3.1% of women (510,000) and 0.8% of men (138,000) aged 16 to 59 had experienced a sexual assault in the last year.

www.rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/about-sexual-violence/statistics-sexual-violence/

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 19/03/2022 02:55

Here's a recent investigation.

Here, the proportion of males surveyed who were sexually violent, by their own testimony, was 11.4%.

The first survey examining sexual violence by male UK students has shone a light on misogyny at universities, with scores admitting to rape, sexual assault and other forcible acts.

Of the 554 male students surveyed, 63 reported that they had committed 251 sexual assaults, rapes and other coercive and unwanted incidents in the past two years, according to researchers at the University of Kent.

The study, Understanding Sexual Aggression in UK Male University Students, examined both the psychological profiles of sexually violent male students and their self-reported rates of offending.

It identified a strong association between toxic masculinity and sexual violence, with those who reported committing offences also admitting to misogynistic views, such as believing that women who get drunk are to blame if they get raped, and having sadistic sexual fantasies about raping or torturing women.

Such views and fantasies were not held by participants who did not report sexual misconduct and violence, the study noted.

The research comprised two online surveys, one of 295 students from 100 UK universities and another of 259 students at a university in south-east England.

Participants were asked detailed questions about a range of sexual scenarios, including having sex with someone intoxicated by drugs or alcohol, and their attitudes towards women and romantic relationships.

In the first survey, 30 participants reported they had committed 145 sexually aggressive acts over the past two years, with sexual coercion being the most common, followed by rape and attempted rape and unwanted sexual contact.

In the second survey, 33 men reported perpetrating 106 sexually aggressive acts over the same timeframe, with a third of those declaring they had committed three or more. All of the participants identified as heterosexual but five reported female and male victims, and one a male victim only.

The report’s co-author Samuel Hales, a PhD researcher at the University of Kent’s Centre of Research and Education in Forensic Psychology, said: “Of the 63 perpetrators who took part in either the first or second study, 37 reported perpetrating unwanted sexual contact, 32 sexual coercion and 30 rape or attempted rape.

“Some of these offences would’ve been perpetrated just before they started university, including while they were at school.

“Perpetrators were significantly more likely to endorse offence-excusing myths associated with rape, eg victims are to blame for being assaulted, and to have more negative sexist and hostile views about women, eg believing that many of their troubles were the fault of women, and to report sexually fantasising more about harmful, such as physically hurting their sexual partner when they didn’t have consent to do so.”

Hales said the findings suggested that UK universities should appoint staff to work with sexually aggressive students who are banned from campus – but later return – to reduce the risk of them re-offending.

Continues www.theguardian.com/society/2021/oct/29/research-reveals-rapes-and-assaults-admitted-to-by-male-uk-students

Furries · 19/03/2022 03:06

The mental gymnastics of some people is “worthy” of a gold medal.

MOST people on here are not transphobic.

Women need safe spaces. Full stop. That means spaces that have no room for penis-havers. I’m (not) sorry if the penis-havers find this offensive.

Decent people, whether or not they have a penis, would recognise that female-only spaces are crucial. They’d recognise that safeguarding is paramount.

Any argument against the above is wrong.

Trans people need safe spaces. But not at the expense of women or children.

To rail against the above statement means that you want women to forego their rights. So, shame on you,

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 19/03/2022 03:10

On a cheerier note, we will have fewer than 4 million sexually violent men though, because this could only be 10% of sexually active males. So it's going to be more like 2 million (no I can't be arsed to find out exactly what proportion of the population is aged 18-75, according to the 2021 census)

There is also a possibility that if we really dug into it, the proportion of sexually violent male adults would vary across age groups, due to cultural factors.

Nat6999 · 19/03/2022 03:50

My mum was admitted to hospital last summer after suffering a seizure at home, she was horrified to be put in a mixed sex ward, she is 83 & the only man she had ever shared a room with was my dad who she had been married to for 58 years until he died in 2019.

RinklyRomaine · 19/03/2022 05:14

@Bintymcbintface

Not to be an idiot or anything but... If there were trans people on your ward, how would you know? They're not going to be wandering around naked or anything, there are a great deal of female "passing" mtf trans people, unless you saw their nethers you'd have no idea that they were trans...
That is absolutely not true. The female brain is very adept at recognising sex, no matter how well disguised it might be. Millennia of evolution have given us that skill as a survival mechanism. Phone filters and makeup do a reasonable job but there as soon many markers, subtle or otherwise, which are impossible to alter. Gait, hip stance, hands, feet, throat, scent, hairline, jaw, height, shoulders. Those carefully posed SM images with the head tilt / hand hiding Adam's apple are so misleading. 10 seconds of reality put paid to that.

Also, so what? So some males can 'pass'? Why does that matter? Women still deserve dignity & the utmost safeguarding caution when vulnerable, no matter how 'feminine' a male can appear. Or do you think risks decrease based on how dainty / well made up a man is?

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 19/03/2022 07:34

@LightSpeeds

Surely, the risks in order of likelihood are 1) Males on the Ward 2) Male staff.

The chances of there being anyone trans about (male to female) or that person being a rapist/abuser are minuscule compared to 1 and 2 above.

The people making this a 'trans issue' are serving their own agendas and spreading hate and panic.

This is true.

Statistically, women are at most risk from other sex offending male patients /visitors(there are so many of them Angry and of course who are not dbs cleared or are never before the courts sex 'offenders' ) , followed by male HCPs, then by any sex offending mtf trans people (who are a tiny, tiny group).

But any sex offence is one too many....

But usually you have single sex bays.... But if a sexually offending mtf trans person is in the next bed... All women in the bay are at risk.

By statute only people with penises can rape. The vast majority of trans females retain their penises and choose never to have surgery.

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 19/03/2022 07:38

@Thoosa

Not single gender. Single sex.

Im due for one, maybe two, surgeries this year. I’m a DV and rape survivor.

I’m nervous.

I'm wondering if you can disclose the bear details to the nursing sister on the ward (ie you're a survivor of DV/Rape), and say how worried /nervous you are. At the very least ask them to put you away from any people they know of as mtf trans (they won't tell you WHO but if they know, they can keep this in mind). Stress impacts negatively on both physical and psychological healing... So it is in everyone's interest your in best possible mental & physical health.

At the very least, you can request that you're kept closely to nurses station?

Instantnoodles · 19/03/2022 09:17

If you think we don't need female only, campaign for all mixed. At least that would be honest.

I agree.

Piper's cold minimisation of male violence has been eye opening for me. I'm quite shocked that anyone would interact with a survivor like this.

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 19/03/2022 09:29

Decaudin is proud of it and would like us to suck it.

This is male violence at work. So awful when not only is there success but there is pride.

Violence is not just physical and this was a clear attack on women.

The3Ls · 19/03/2022 09:41

My trust would say no they couldn't accommodate. We would have no idea on clinical need as it came in. Within the ward our nurse in charge would definitely try and accommodate for you if at all possible. Requesting a side room would be reasonable on past trauma in more normal times it's still reasonable but unlikely we could do it due to having to isolate covid positive patients at the moment. You are aware that there maybe male care givers on the ward? And also trans staff? It would be impossible to police that.