To not want to give people free advice?

[PretZubscription]

I work in the legal sector, studied Law at both undergrad and postgrad level and I am hoping to work towards becoming a barrister.

Since starting my undergrad Law degree I have always had people (family & friends) reach out to me to ask for advice. I have always tried to answer their questions based on what I know but warned them I am not a professional. Since gaining my current position I now specialise in a certain area of Law that a lot of people are wanting advice in. I don’t mind people asking me the odd question here and there but I am increasingly getting messages asking for advice and even people asking if I will meet them. I have told these people that I can’t do that and it’s constantly been met with “it’s not really legal advice I just wanted to meet for a coffee and a chat”.

I work very long hours. Sometimes I’m working 14+ hour days going over massive amounts of paperwork and I come home with my brain frazzled. I want to be able to switch off when I finish work and not constantly be asked my professional opinion. I have friends who are hair dressers and I wouldn’t ask them to do my hair for free, so to me this feels like the same thing. However, there is a part of me that’s thinking well it’s not like I’m doing their paperwork and legal advice is more important than that so should I be giving these people some time? A lot of the people who are asking my opinion are not well off and would probably struggle to afford professional advice so I’m not sure what to do. I obviously don’t want their lives to be negatively impacted by not gaining appropriate advice but if I did it for one person, how many would I be meeting? I’m not a charity As I said, I don’t mind answering messages here and there or even pointing people towards a solicitor in that area but suddenly it feels like a lot. I’m on a salary right now so even if I was giving these people advice through work I wouldn’t be paid any extra for it.

So AIBU to not want to give advice to these people? And if I am please can you help me come up with a reply because I just keep being met with “I only wanted a coffee and a chat” when I tell them I can’t meet up with them and give them legal advice.

Sorry but my case load is full at the moment. If you want a consultation I'd be happy to put you on my billable client list.

If you go for coffee and chat and they slip it in...

Afraid I can't give any advice without knowing full facts as its each case on its own merits. I'd hate to give you the wrong advice...if you want to come in for a consultation...as above.

There is always going to be an element of 'can I just ask a quick question?' I'm usually happy to do this for a friend (as in giving steers to good providers, services etc) and will do mate's rates for some, but I'm not working for free!

@BloodyN0rah

Not at all unreasonable, I think I’d have a cut and paste response ready saying that as you work long hours you’ve decided to prioritise your mental health and not offer legal advice in your leisure time but you’re happy to point them in the right direction. There more you do it the more people will expect it, I’ve learnt the hard way that people don’t value stuff that’s free.

Oh, I think that’s a bit wanker-ish. Just say your professional busy doesn’t permit you to give advice outside your chambers / whatever

The awful part is, when you do give free advice they usually ignore it, are not particularly grateful for the hour(s) you've spent on them, and then want more! Nip it in the bud; develop a policy and an easy to remember catchphrase.

@PretZubscriptionPretZubscription, firstly YANBU.

It is great to read how heartily you are committed to your career & specialism, & you come across a thoroughly decent & helpful person.

However, you are only human with x amount of energy for y number of people & z amount of goodwill, not to mention the everyday matter of hours in the day, your need for R&R & a personal life. You need string boundaries as your knowledge & goodwill means that you are always in demand, same as medical & IT folk.

Were you so inclined, might you pull together a single page crib sheet of the top five FAQs that you are asked & a few useful links or helplines? A small file that you can email or ping over to someone who asks you for a favour. You will know far better than I do about any phrasing & disclaimers that say anything more complex than this requires a consultation with a professional lawyer & here is the link to the CAB/ Law Society search engine (i.e. not me).

As I have said recently on MN, consulting a lawyer for advice might be the best money ever spent & foregoing some discretionary spend for this is well worth it. I think that sometimes people don’t understand that advice does not cost anywhere near as much instructing a solicitor to act on the client’s behalf or representation in court. Advice upfront can save a world of bother & unnecessary legal expenses later on.

This applies to so many areas of work- we have had a transport company, and would constantly be asked by friends and even friends of friends to borrow vans, including one person who wanted to take the van to Scotland to camp for a week - this is a van used daily for work that they expected us to lose money on whilst we insured it etc- or for us to give up our time & use our vans to move furniture/move whole houses/go the tip etc. We have also had taxis and the same applied then- ‘I’d rather give the money to you’ which quickly turned in to them jumping out saying thanks for the lift and not paying, or in another case which was a long journey which we were doing for 50% of the going rate- so basically just covering petrol as it was a family member- they then with no discussion dropped down to 25% of the going rate, so not only were we doing the job for free but we were paying towards the fuel cost ourselves. That one was tough as I had no choice but to say we couldn’t do it anymore and why, and was then met with ‘we would never take advantage’! We now make up excuses why we can’t help most times, unless it’s very close family/friends. It’s a bit trickier when it’s advice and you’re with them but some of the pp replies sound great.

I believe Dr's get this a lot too. And no, you shouldn't be giving your advice to people you have just met for coffee and a chat. You need to be able to leave work behind and enjoy your down time or you will burn yourself out. Friends will understand

If you wanted to help people in a compartmentalised way without it taking over your leisure time, perhaps you could volunteer a day a month/quarter with CAB or a relevant charity. Anyone who wants free advice could be invited to come along on that day. If they can’t be bothered (and they mostly won’t) then they don’t need your help that badly!

Hi OP my friend has a hair salon and I actively avoid mentioning hair in any context. But one thing I’ve noticed she does is said very lightheartedly something like ‘I love my job but outside of work I can’t even THINK about hair, it’s what I do all day ha ha’.

Maybe something along those lines? Or ‘I’ve promised myself a better work life balance so don’t do anything work related outside of hours anymore. Not even casual. I know you’ll understand, I’m done in after 14 hours and need to keep things separate.’

Anyone who doesn’t immediately back down would be very unreasonable.

As others have said in one way or another, you need to formulate an effective stock answer and trot it out every time this happens.

You really should not be giving off the record advice.

Hi OP, another consulting professional here (engineering) I have no idea how many people have asked me "could you have a look at my ....." Or "do I need a steel joist if I knock a wall down?"

YANBU

Don't even respond to the 2 former male colleagues. They don't sound like they are in your close circle. Just ignore.

You have been kind and helpful until now and set a bit of a precedent. For all the practical reasons you have outlined, this needs to stop now.

You're going to need to develop a polite but firm way to say no. Maybe people you are genuinely close to warrant a bit of your time. But only people in your circle of trust. Ask yourself if each person would willingly sacrifice their evening or weekend to help you with your troubles?

It's hard when you work in an emotive sector but the way you're working isn't sustainable.

Is fine to not respond to people who aren't in your circle. If they ask and you respond to say no, then you've opened a dialogue. You have to ignore.

I'm also a 'legal professional ' working in a pretty useful every day area. No one ever asks for my advice. Even my mother who was dealing with a stressful situation involving my exact speciality didn't ask or listen to me. I am worried I give off an air of complete incompetence.

Definitely not being unreasonable! My husband has this (different area of work though) and it’s so cheeky the the type of things people ask him for as if it’s no big deal. Always for free as well no matter its advice/help/actual work being done.

Thank you for all of your advice, it has been very helpful and I’m reading all of it. I just wanted to reiterate, I don’t think I’m being a bad friend or unhelpful. I don’t mind messages like “can I take the children away without other parents permission” as the guidance on that is usually straight forward and I am also more than happy to recommend qualified legal professionals who I think would be helpful when people ask. Obviously if I thought a friend/close family member was in trouble I would try my best to help them whilst making sure they had the best qualified professional advising them.

The issue is some people (who admittedly are not very close friends) are messaging me disclosing some very personal stuff and there’s no GDPR in place to cover this. Likewise, the guys who have messaged regarding having contact taken away, there could be a very good reason for this and I would hate to accidentally aide someone who is abusive.

There is always more to the story than a client tells you and until you have all of the paperwork, statements and evidence to read you don’t have a clear picture and to advise friends without this could be very dangerous as I could give some bad advice, not to mention I’m not even fully qualified! I would also hate for something to backfire and sound like my own personal opinion if someone was like well Pret told me to do this if I was advising on options within the law.

I do think telling me to get over myself is a bit harsh when I am trying my best to set up boundaries but constantly being messaged and nervous to attend social events because everyone has a situation they need advising on! It’s not like I’m getting a few comments from people in passing, I am being contacted by multiple acquaintances all of the time who won’t take no for answer. I will be pulling my pants up from now on though and telling people I just can’t do that.

Do you not have rules you have to abide by? Part of a professional body with rules on giving advice? Or held liable if the advice you give is legally incorrect?

I'd go down that route if it was me. A standard statement about ethics and rules your professional body expects you to adhere to and a link to a list of lawyers or the cab or something

Happens in our house too. DH just tells anyone asking that he can recommend a solicitor or to check their home insurance to see if it covers whichever legal thing they want. Works fairly well.

I on the other hand literally have people turn up at the door to show me whatever they've hurt🤣 I need to start charging too

if you meet new people just say that you have a different occupation if you dont want to hand out "free advice"

Yes !
Though knowing me I'd pick the very profession the other person knows inside out and I know nought about .

I'm an HPC (NHS) , I say I'm not allowed to give advice to anyone who isn't a patient , and I don;t do any private work.
Doesn't stop people getting out their bodyparts though !

@Eileen101

An airy "haha sorry, it's not my area of expertise, I'm in business to business, I know nothing about wills/divorce/employment and I wouldn't want to advise you incorrectly. You could end up suing me " This works for me.

Yes, this is what I say as well. “I just don’t have the knowledge in that area.”

Same for my DH - he has to do the same. It tiring but we aren’t charity workers and there are liability issues and so we both “Just say no”

You sound very tired out from it all. Good luck.

I'm a lawyer too. I specialise in property and planning as well as some highways. I get asked basic residen planning which I don't know and lots of property stuff. Then top that up with employment, wills and family law but these I have no experience in at all! Yet they keep asking. I simply give general info. I think you need to have your firms details to hand and provide that saying the SRA doesn't permit you to practice informally.

Not only is it improper, but you can leave yourself liable to a negligence claim and won’t be covered by your firms indemnity insurance.

I always advice in “general terms” and say I’ve not looked at the specifics of their matter but broadly speaking and then refer them to someone who can help (for a fee). In time you will get used to dodging it without looking like you are snubbing people.

"My professional indemnity insurance does not cover me out of a business setting" should do it, if they push further then your contract of employment states that all work has to be done through The Firm.

You are at the beginning of your career, it's easier to not start it than it is to try and stop it. These people are not after your friendship, they are after your services.

I've just finished reading The Secret Barrister, really interesting finding out about a different field. Would it be ok to talk about that or the poor legal aid funding in a social situation? I don't think I'd go for would I have to have the kids if ...

One of the most amazing bits of legislation was the HEALTH & safety at work act, I think I'm right in saying that say you are a scaffolder and you walk past someone else's work on someone's else's site you have an obligation if you spot it may endanger people. I think this is what sets a profession apart from a job. In some circumstances you may have a duty of care towards others. (Probably not extension plans or boil lancing)
I owe a huge debt to the HCP who spotted at the swimming pool, a tick bite on my daughter and encouraged me to seek antibiotics out of surgery hours. She was amazing and I think of you often over the years.

Also I would never research anything for free - I say they can instruct me.

I also used to say that I worked for the local authority (which I did) rather than utter the magic phrase "I am an accountant".

Cant you say something neutral l8ke "make sure you tell yr solicitor everything. Have proof of everything.