To not want to give people free advice?

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I work in the legal sector, studied Law at both undergrad and postgrad level and I am hoping to work towards becoming a barrister.

Since starting my undergrad Law degree I have always had people (family & friends) reach out to me to ask for advice. I have always tried to answer their questions based on what I know but warned them I am not a professional. Since gaining my current position I now specialise in a certain area of Law that a lot of people are wanting advice in. I don’t mind people asking me the odd question here and there but I am increasingly getting messages asking for advice and even people asking if I will meet them. I have told these people that I can’t do that and it’s constantly been met with “it’s not really legal advice I just wanted to meet for a coffee and a chat”.

I work very long hours. Sometimes I’m working 14+ hour days going over massive amounts of paperwork and I come home with my brain frazzled. I want to be able to switch off when I finish work and not constantly be asked my professional opinion. I have friends who are hair dressers and I wouldn’t ask them to do my hair for free, so to me this feels like the same thing. However, there is a part of me that’s thinking well it’s not like I’m doing their paperwork and legal advice is more important than that so should I be giving these people some time? A lot of the people who are asking my opinion are not well off and would probably struggle to afford professional advice so I’m not sure what to do. I obviously don’t want their lives to be negatively impacted by not gaining appropriate advice but if I did it for one person, how many would I be meeting? I’m not a charity As I said, I don’t mind answering messages here and there or even pointing people towards a solicitor in that area but suddenly it feels like a lot. I’m on a salary right now so even if I was giving these people advice through work I wouldn’t be paid any extra for it.

So AIBU to not want to give advice to these people? And if I am please can you help me come up with a reply because I just keep being met with “I only wanted a coffee and a chat” when I tell them I can’t meet up with them and give them legal advice.

I work in mental health, at the moment I'm working with children, however my experience is really in adult mental health. I tend to be unsure of the answer to this but I've been known to sink a good number of glasses of wine to then be hit with some significant problems by friends. Trying to think therapeutically after wine is not a good idea.

@BananaSplitX

It appears I am a rare one on here, but I do think YABU. You come across rather selfish and self absorbed. I am a professional too. And I also work crazy long hours. But I don’t mind giving friends advice. That’s what friends are for.

How on earth have you come to that conclusion? Please explain why OP is selfish and self absorbed for not wanting to sit down with Men who aren’t even in her close circle of friends and discuss and advise on them not having access to their children when there’s probably a very good reason for it? Never mind that she’s not even qualified or insured to do so!

What a rude comment.

FWIW I actually think OP comes across very well in her posts and obviously cares about her profession. Why should she endanger that for people who are just ex colleagues?

@Londoncallingme

We all advise friends on what we specialise in - teachers, greengrocers, tech, doctors, hairstylists,surgeons etc etc. no, you wouldn’t ask for hair styling for free but if you developed a bald patch , alopecia you might reach out to hairdressers, doctors, therapists etc to ask an opinion if these people are your friends. What is it that makes you do special that you can’t do that? I shouldn’t worry - I’m sure they’ll soon retreat and the invitations for coffee will stop.

Family Law is an extremely sensitive area and for all of the reasons stated by everyone on this thread it makes complete sense why OP doesn’t want to nor should she give two men she doesn’t know properly advice regarding access to their kids without being legally covered.

I normally just signpost elsewhere with a very general statement like "in certain circumstances you can do that but it is very complex so you need proper advice"

I then either send them off to a colleague/friend (this works both ways, and can result in lucrative work) or in the direction of ACAS, CAB, Union, home insurance or membership bodies.

I am happy to sign the occasional passport photo or certify a copy document free of charge for a friend though providing they do the leg work and are polite and reasonable.

I also try to be really vague about exactly what I do so I can keep using the "not my area", "sorry I haven't seen a conveyance since law school", "you know we only do two lessons on wills and probate" type excuses.

@Londoncallingme

We all advise friends on what we specialise in - teachers, greengrocers, tech, doctors, hairstylists,surgeons etc etc. no, you wouldn’t ask for hair styling for free but if you developed a bald patch , alopecia you might reach out to hairdressers, doctors, therapists etc to ask an opinion if these people are your friends. What is it that makes you do special that you can’t do that? I shouldn’t worry - I’m sure they’ll soon retreat and the invitations for coffee will stop.

It is really not hard to read all of the OP posts where she states she doesn’t mind giving out general advice and sign posting people correctly.

The difference between messaging your hair dresser friend about alopecia and messaging a semi qualified lawyer friend is that incorrect legal advice could potentially ruin someone’s life and leave OP open to massive legal damages if she advises on only half a story.

I have friends who are doctors, solicitors and barristers. I would not dream of asking them for professional advice (well, there's one friend who I wouldn't hesitate to ask in an emergency, but she's the level of friend who could move into our house if she needed to/known her almost 35 years).

You are totally correct in establishing boundaries.
Sorry you're dealing with this on top of long working hours!

I think jobs where you'd pay for an opinion are all like this OP
GPs, a plumber , a therapist .. I bet they all get this
I'm not a lawyer ,but I do a job where you'd pay for my opinion. Randoms , neighbours etc all ask for advice.
I don't mind too much , but usually I direct them where to call.

Reading this thread it seems to me like a real clash of cultures.

In traditional working class cultures (and it still is the case in the minds of some people), that it is not real work if you are not using your hands. It is real work to serve fish and chips. It is real work to cut hair. But it is not real work to just talk.
In these cultures, solidarity and helping people with advice is a strong value, so if you can help out a friend-of-a-friend by 'just talking' then of course you should!

This is why acquaintances from a upper-middle class background wouldn't dream of asking you for legal advice, but most other people will happily do so and expect you to be friendly and help them with advice - they just want a 'chat', its not like they are asking you to do some real work.

I think it helps to understand where people are coming from, so you don't judge them harshly.

@Beancounter1

Reading this thread it seems to me like a real clash of cultures.

In traditional working class cultures (and it still is the case in the minds of some people), that it is not real work if you are not using your hands. It is real work to serve fish and chips. It is real work to cut hair. But it is not real work to just talk.
In these cultures, solidarity and helping people with advice is a strong value, so if you can help out a friend-of-a-friend by 'just talking' then of course you should!

This is why acquaintances from a upper-middle class background wouldn't dream of asking you for legal advice, but most other people will happily do so and expect you to be friendly and help them with advice - they just want a 'chat', its not like they are asking you to do some real work.

I think it helps to understand where people are coming from, so you don't judge them harshly.

Whereas middle class culture it is the norm to befriend a person because they are well connected, might be useful, WC culture doesn’t hVe this, they will befriend the people they actually like. I have a foot in both camps and this is true.

I don’t have a legal background but have a profession. I have this often and like you, with acquaintances asking if I can’t take on the worlds problems. What happens now is I say that I’ll send them a list of appropriate professionals who may be able to help, support or guide them. Included are charity contacts.
Seems to work, so far.

@Marchingredsoldiers

This is a common attitude leading to the CFery. @marchingredsoldiers, in practice i made 27k for working unlimited hours plus supervising a team.

27k is/was not a bad wage at all! If you think that is a poor wage, that may explain a bit. Work in kitchen. Then you would experience a proper income/hours imbalance. 27k is a fortune. And LOL at 50k for 70 hours being unreasonable! (I agree 70 hours is inhumane - but not uncommon, but the money can't be said to be bad.)

And yes I do read the news and know that legal aid has been slashed. Don't you think that may have contributed to people asking for advice?

My comments seem to have annoyed legal types. But I stand by it. The fees and costs are a lot for many people. I get that not all workers see all the profits.

But my point is that many people earn very small amounts compared with the cost of living. That's why they ask. It doesn't really matter who in the law firm, dentists, builders (it's not all about lawyers!) gets the bulk of the money, it still costs alot. How often are women who want to leave their husbands and are finanically fucked told to "use the free half hour" on MN. Now they are labelled cheeky fuckers.

I also understand that doctors and nurses would get pissed off too. That is another matter. Health is chronically underfunded and people get desperate due to lack of appointments and waiting times.

We can agree though that the government is the root cause for most of this.

(BTW if you work a 70 hour week on "minimum wage" as a lawyer, you will take home nearly twice as much someone working a 35 hour week on minimum wage. Actually more if childcare costs are deduced. Lawyers may not take home the fabled huge sums and/or they are disappointed with their salary, but there are a lot of people earning significantly less.)

By that mindset maybe you should suck it up and get a better paid job? Why? I enjoy my job. This whole is moaning about yours!

50k is not a bad wage, it is certainly nothing to be sniffed at. However, your original post insinuated that every one who goes into the legal profession are greedy and money grabbing and legal advice is so expensive because they are ripping everyone off. 50k is a very good wage but not one most would categorise as a high earner. As another poster said there are many, many threads on here asking what people class as a good or a high earning salary and the majority of the responses fall at 70-100k.

@BananaSplitX

It appears I am a rare one on here, but I do think YABU. You come across rather selfish and self absorbed. I am a professional too. And I also work crazy long hours. But I don’t mind giving friends advice. That’s what friends are for.

Based on your judgement shown on this post, it is likely that your friends are better off without your advice.

YANBU. Also a lawyer here. I went to a friend’s for lunch once only to be ambushed by being told that guy across the road was popping over as he’s getting a divorce and needs advice. Never met him and he was deeply unpleasant and clearly a perpetrator of DV based on what he said. He was downright horrible and argumentative. I gave up and left. Friend was hairdresser and if she did my hair I paid her. My time isn’t less valuable or more free. People don’t see it as the same though.
Have had friends ask if the kids could visit our house to play then been ambushedasked detailed legal lengthy questions on behalf of a family member (only to then discover family member does have a lawyer but doesn’t want to pay to ask the questions). They usually leave with a “oh we must have your DC over soon” but then we never hear again. Pure brass neck. I’m busy, juggling and don’t want to “work” in my free time for people I don’t know. Will have a chat with someone if I do know them but if it gets too detailed I’ll validly say I’m not insured for non-clients.
On the other hand I signed a document once for someone - just witnessed a signature and she produced a bottle of wine. Totally unnecessary but in fact the only person who actually appreciated a small bit of help (that I offered in this case) in 20 years of being ambushed for free legal advice on behalf of people I’ve never met.

Worth pointing out as well that, as a solicitor, I don't ask my legal friends/colleagues for advice. I would ask them for a recommendation for a suitable lawyer for a particular issue but not for any actual advice.

I tell people I won't do business with anyone I know. I wouldn't want my friends doing any work for me (paid or otherwise), if something went wrong then I think it would be hard for the friendship not to be affected.

Hi, I'm so sorry that's not my area of expertise. This is the link to someone who can help...

Hi, there's a lot there. I can't help with it because I'm not allowed to/not qualified/not insured for advice. Here's the number for the office/link to the company/name of a colleague.

I’m a GP. I probably get 3 CF texts a week on average from family/friends/acquaintances asking for advice. I generally give links to online resources and very simple advice (bazuka gel for verrucas etc) and try not to get into meatier stuff.
It’s tough, exhausting and pisses me off. Sympathies!

@Marchingredsoldiers

I have sympathy with people asking.

It is bloody expensive to get professional advice. This information asymmtry is why certain professions earn shitloads.

Also every job has its down side. I work bloody hard for little money. No-one asks for my opinion or even gives a shit about my job, which is actually essential for society.

I can understand it being annoying, but really if your profession didn't charge a fortune (resulting in larger than average salaries) you wouldn't have this problem. Suck it up buttercup.

Riiiiight, so you're saying that poorly paid people don't get anyone trying to scrounge off them either? Ridiculous. When I used to work in a pub on 5p above NMW I had people I knew expecting free drinks, it's the same principle.

And the reason people are trying to tap OP for free advice owes more to the gutting of legal aid and the advice sector than anything else. You don't know what you're talking about and that's why you've had a roasting.

I sympathise! Not me but DH, in a very specialist field with a history of making incredible sums of money based on the hours he puts in, his years of knowledge and contacts in the industry. "Friends" often ask him for advice, and in all fairness he does tend to really try and point them in the right direction and answer questions but essentially they are just looking for money without putting in an iota of the time and effort DH does! They think it's easy money, disregarding the years and years of training, the weeks away from home and the endless hours in the office. Drives me barmy, people will always want something for nothing.

I’m also a lawyer ( solicitor ) and I have the same issue . It’s so bad o even have the odd person message my on Facebook saying “ oh your friend …. Said you could maybe advise me “ . People indent even know . It’s not even the “ free “ part if it it’s just I’m tired abençoe let thinning need with 3 kids a full time job and a household is extra work . Sometimes I ignore it ? If I cannot I will say sorry I’m really busy or on occasion I actually said I’m not authorised to work outside if my company . On occasion I end up helping as I find it hard to say no

In this situation I’d tell you to say you can’t give professional advice to family and friends and they need to get an independent opinion.

The advice I am willing to give is that before you see a lawyer

"make a file of all relevant documents
originals and a copy.

Whilst everything is fresh in your mind write down a detailed history of the matter and hand it over to your lawyer."

This is a great money saver.

As in "Do you want to pay a lawyer to just read a book or
do you want to pay a lawyer to write a book?"

It will also become obvious that someone who is not willing to do this is not really committed and wants someone else to "do the work"!

@JudyGemstone

I’m a psychotherapist and can relate! I used to tell people I met socially that I was a yoga teacher otherwise they’d start telling me their life story, all about their divorce etc and chew my ear off.

Direct them to CAB if they’re skint, not your problem.

Yes JudyGemstone and they play the ‘ but you’re in a caring profession; can you do it for free and in MY time. I’m skint and busy. 🙄😂

I think it's about weighing up how much time and knowledge you want to invest with certain people. You have knowledge which is not accessible to others, and you'll no doubt end up with CFs wanting it for free.

I have a friend who is a barrister, and who I wouldn't dream of asking for a free service, however, in the same breath, we own a construction business, and I know she wouldn't approach us expecting to have freebies. I would be happy to approach her for contacts if I ever needed them, and possibly her advice, just as she would be happy to approach us, and there would no doubt be friendly discounts. It's mutual.

I studied physiotherapy. I'm not a physiotherapist anymore, but I still have people asking me to help them. I can't, I'm not insured or registered. I do offer the people who are close to me a possible explanation of their ailment, with a quick 'Go see your GP'. I also specialised in a certain area, and so if someone came to me with plantar fasciitis symptoms, I'd be like wtf? I'm not giving advice because I don't want one of you or one of your colleagues coming to sue me