To wonder if veganism really is the answer?

[RubyFruitSunday]

Lots of my friendship circle have transitioned to be vegan/vegetarian recently. I'm not, but we do choose to include very few animal products in our diet and eat a predominantly plant based diet. But sometimes I have a hankering for a steak or some nice cheese and so I indulge. However my friends think this means I'm part of the problem and it should be all or nothing.

I have a few issues with this but I dont know if I'm just clinging to them as justification to keep my animal based treats.

1. Animals eat other animals and we are animals. So I dont think eating meat is morally wrong from this perspective. I do object to factory farming and animals living miserable lives though. But its hard to tell what comes from where sometimes.

2. What would become of the English countryside without farming? I'm guessing a lot of the land currently used to graze animals wouldnt be suitable to grow other foodstuffs so would end up being built up? I'm not sure I like the idea of that either.

I'd love to know others thoughts!

Tbh OP, your diet is up to you. I think it sounds like youve reached a compromise that works for you and should probably just not talk about it to your vegan friends if theyre going to be judgy

a male animal will have sex with a female animal whether that female wants to or not. We, as humans, know that that would be entirely wrong, so we don’t do it. For me, it’s the same with eating meat.

Yep, eating a bacon butty is definitely as bad as being a rapist.

For me it is about reducing harm as best as I can. To people, animals and the environment. No one can avoid harming others completely though.

I agree with this. I am vegan and I understand veganism is not accessible for everyone. I also favour the term plant based now a days because I find online especially, there is too much criticism around the word vegan. I am disabled so whilst I do my best to follow a vegan life style and only buy cruelty free products, I do consume medication which has gelatine in it and I drive a car because public transport is not accessible to me.

Personally I don’t like meat substitutes so I don’t eat them and I think the sensible thing for anyone who is making changes to their diet is to supplement, there are many vegan supplements available now a days.

I have a friend who lives in the country who tries her best to make substitutes. She drinks milk alternatives and eats vegan when she can. She isn’t vegan though and purchases meat from the local farm shop and her eggs come from local farmers too. I don’t think it’s all or nothing at all, any swap or conscious thought into what you’re buying is good.

Some foods, not focusing on vegan here, aren't that great in that they've been heavily processed and/or travelled a lot of food miles, so you would be better to eat something locally grown.

BashfulClam

If vegans are eating Jackfruit and avocado flown thousands of miles but I eat a steak from a nearby farm….who has the lesser environmental impact? Plus Vegan Cheez, it’s like shit that’s been drenched in sock sweat 🤮

Is it only vegans that eat imported food?

1. Meat eaters eat as much imported food as vegans I would imagine

1. Cheez might taste like socks but equally liver tastes vile to me, pork pies make me gag, but I still love the taste of other meat (I no longer eat it). But don't you see how utterly thick you sound? If I said that because liver tastes disgusting therefore im not going to eat any animal product.

What I hear is excuses and justification. If you eat animal products be aware that you are contributing to climate change and animal abuse. That's all there is to it. And even if you won't change your eating habits be at least grateful to those who do or at least don't discourage them.

@BashfulClam

If vegans are eating Jackfruit and avocado flown thousands of miles but I eat a steak from a nearby farm….who has the lesser environmental impact? Plus Vegan Cheez, it’s like shit that’s been drenched in sock sweat 🤮

No cow farms near London

Do you ever eat bananas?

Not sure what your argument is here

@Momijin

BashfulClam

If vegans are eating Jackfruit and avocado flown thousands of miles but I eat a steak from a nearby farm….who has the lesser environmental impact? Plus Vegan Cheez, it’s like shit that’s been drenched in sock sweat 🤮

Is it only vegans that eat imported food?

1. Meat eaters eat as much imported food as vegans I would imagine

1. Cheez might taste like socks but equally liver tastes vile to me, pork pies make me gag, but I still love the taste of other meat (I no longer eat it). But don't you see how utterly thick you sound? If I said that because liver tastes disgusting therefore im not going to eat any animal product.

What I hear is excuses and justification. If you eat animal products be aware that you are contributing to climate change and animal abuse. That's all there is to it. And even if you won't change your eating habits be at least grateful to those who do or at least don't discourage them.

Spot on

If meat eaters ate the whole animal that would be a start but they throw away the livers, brains, tongues etc - that’s not very eco

What annoys me about these threads, is despite the fact im not vegan, i do think its a worthwhile lifestyle if you can tolerate it. Im mainly vegetarian but dont have a lot of dairy. I just cant be bothered to be strict about it.
I have overwhelmingly noticed though that all of my many vegan friends really dont expect their friends to be vegan. I think some youngsters are much more militant about it but i have had comments from meat eaters loads about how shit the food is, how its fake, how its gross, how its unhealthy. Its so boring and so rude.

Veganism makes no more sense than any other diet if the food is still being flow in from other continents. The damage to the environment affects us all, humans and animals alike. Those avocados, peanuts, sweet potatoes are hugely damaging.

A local-diet which can be veggie or vegan is the only diet that minimises our impact on the world.
A diet that uses locally grown produce, say within a 50 mile radius, cuts emissions, it cuts environmental damage (no need for airports, plane fuel, no need to cut down rain forests etc). I manage most of the year with local fruit/veg, bread, potatoes etc. I eat local fish and cheese, local pork, lamb, game once a week. I try not to eat beef. Plus I buy from the greengrocer and butcher so no acres of plastic packaging.

I bet I do a lot less damage than most vegans.

People feel told off or scared of change so react with nasty comments.

Really we should be grateful for vegans/vegetarians for leading the way for years when it was all a lot harder than it is now.

@MintJulia

Veganism makes no more sense than any other diet if the food is still being flow in from other continents. The damage to the environment affects us all, humans and animals alike. Those avocados, peanuts, sweet potatoes are hugely damaging.

A local-diet which can be veggie or vegan is the only diet that minimises our impact on the world.
A diet that uses locally grown produce, say within a 50 mile radius, cuts emissions, it cuts environmental damage (no need for airports, plane fuel, no need to cut down rain forests etc). I manage most of the year with local fruit/veg, bread, potatoes etc. I eat local fish and cheese, local pork, lamb, game once a week. I try not to eat beef. Plus I buy from the greengrocer and butcher so no acres of plastic packaging.

I bet I do a lot less damage than most vegans.

Really? No oranges, bananas, rice, coffee, tea, chocolate, tuna, prawns?

50% of the uk food is imported. Are you not buying any?!

@MintJulia that’s just not right though. Transport is only 6% of food emissions. Livestock and fish farms are 30% if emissions, with crops and land for livestock another 21%. You could eat 100% local and it would have less impact than being vegan one day a week. Your arguments are incorrect, the data is very clear. And hardly any food is flown by the way.

All that said, not sure why there is an assumption on this thread that vegan food is all imported but everyone eats local meat. The stats don’t support this at all.

I drink coffee and occasionally have chocolate. but otherwise try to buy U.K. grown/made. Pepper is impossible, so are pasta & rice. My car is European and nearly all my clothes come from abroad but I do my best.

We each have to find a compromise we can live with.

@silverspacesuit

Can a vegan please answer this for me as I struggle to understand.

Why do we have canine teeth if we are not meant to eat meat?

I'm not trying to be funny and/or goady but would love the answer

Horses have canines I’m, pretty sure they don’t eat that much meat.

@EricCartmansMagicalUnderpants

• i didn't experience digestive issues when I started eating meat again.

My original reasons to be vegtn were environmental; British friends pointed out that lambs convert grass to meat, and that the calculus wasn't always vast amounts of grain to feed livestock. that undermined my original logic a lot.

I also felt horrified at a lot of the violent direct action done by animal rights people in 1990s: I hated people assuming I supported any of that violence and their death threats & economic disruption, when I said I was vegetarian. You could say that the animal rightists alienated me from their cause.

@Palmfrond like Hippos, they don't have canine teeth that work for eating & horse canines if there at all are now tiny. These are fighting teeth.

Both animals have a herbivore/prey animal set up with with their eye positioning though, just like we have hunters eye positioning

In the dietary sense, a vegetarian is an omnivore, not a herbivore and not a carnivore

Well yes @Branleuse, but they could eat chicken, cow, pig, or any other animal & still be omnivore as that's what it means

I don't think you are reasoning it our clearly. I think you are buying into the "natural=moral" fallacy. Animals also kill other animals, but we do not consider it moral to murder.

The countryside would certainly look different if farming was different, but it is going to look different anyway because of global warming.

Newgirls No cow farms near London

What on earth is a "cow farm?" Do you realise most beef stock are bullocks? Or are you meaning dairy?
.
Who knows? Anyway, there are plenty of cattle farms near London. Sussex has particularly lush grazing land, as do Hertfordshire and Essex. And Surrey. And just about every other of the Home Counties.

Do you ever eat bananas?

Me, no. I'm allergic to them.

Not sure what your argument is here

Yes, I can see that

I think eating less meat and fewer animal products can only be a good thing, as long as they aren't replaced by processed products and products which have been shipped half way across the world.
However I don't think it has to be all or nothing. If we all had one extra vegetarian/vegan meal a week, think what a difference that would cause.

I'm vegan, and I don't eat lots of processed foods, or loads of avocados etc, and have oat milk in my coffee.
I do however think the all or nothing idea isn't helpful.
I'm vegan, and I'd been veggie for forever before binning off the other animal products as I don't like the idea of eating animals and factory farming is horrible.
However, if you're not planning to go full vegan/vegetarian and you cut down on your meat to a few days a week, or stop using dairy or even cut it down, you're still making a big difference.

"horses have canines I’m, pretty sure they don’t eat that much meat"
Only in Males and use it for fighting

People feel told off or scared of change so react with nasty comments. Really we should be grateful for vegans/vegetarians

Eh? The only nasty comments I've seen on here are from Vegans (the OP's friends and the PP who thinks meat eaters are as bad as rapists).

Everyone else has been discussing the question at hand.

Because most people eat a poor diet but accidentally get most of what they need by eating a broad diet. If you started restricting what people ate there would be huge health implications.
Being a good vegan to me looks as if it takes a massive amount of effort.

I have a vegan friend (she’s been vegan for decades) who eats a dreadful diet. She’s definitely had some issues to do with her diet and is very vocal about how everyone should be vegan. I think her heavily process, mostly carb diet would be very bad.

Honestly think if all people tried to cut down on meat it would have a huge impact, and easier to achieve.

Just tell your mates to fuck off OP. Nowt worse than a performance vegan or a gaggle of them.