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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder if veganism really is the answer?

357 replies

RubyFruitSunday · 17/03/2022 09:17

Lots of my friendship circle have transitioned to be vegan/vegetarian recently. I'm not, but we do choose to include very few animal products in our diet and eat a predominantly plant based diet. But sometimes I have a hankering for a steak or some nice cheese and so I indulge. However my friends think this means I'm part of the problem and it should be all or nothing.

I have a few issues with this but I dont know if I'm just clinging to them as justification to keep my animal based treats.

  1. Animals eat other animals and we are animals. So I dont think eating meat is morally wrong from this perspective. I do object to factory farming and animals living miserable lives though. But its hard to tell what comes from where sometimes.

  2. What would become of the English countryside without farming? I'm guessing a lot of the land currently used to graze animals wouldnt be suitable to grow other foodstuffs so would end up being built up? I'm not sure I like the idea of that either.

I'd love to know others thoughts!

OP posts:
MangyInseam · 22/03/2022 18:02

[quote headspin10]@MangyInseam

Yeah, I know there is no perfect solution. I grew up in the middle of nowhere in Devon, surrounded by farms, with a sheep farm next door. I agree that lots of people who live in cities are detached from farming life, but the realities aren't nice. I don't disagree that farmers care for their animals, but ultimately they send them to be killed unnecessarily for their own gain (money).

'Nature red in tooth and claw' is of course true, but modern animal farming methods are by and large both hideous and unnecessary. Nature is cruel but what we do as humans when we use animals for our own ends is much worse. (Also much worse for the environment.) [/quote]
There are certainly some farming methods that are particularly bad.

But there is a real error in imagining that because we don't eat meat, or use any animal products, somehow we are not implicated in animal death. We are. To live, other creatures and organisms, which were alive, die and become part of us. We are part of a wholly interdependent ecosystem.

Trying to get out of that is like trying to remain aloof from bodily functions or death by segregating those tasks off so there is a hierarchy between ourselves and those that deal with those elements of life. In the end, we all excrete, we all die, and pretending otherwise is just an illusion. And an illusion that prevents us from taking real stock and responsibility for our place in the ecosystem and effect on what is around us, and on our dependence.

If people are doing their best to eat sustainably farmed food, not wasting food, and are honouring the place of all living things, that is about the best we can do. And it's much better environmentally than just cutting out meat. Industrial farming of crops doesn't do any of that.

MangyInseam · 22/03/2022 18:24

Hunter-gatherer people ate entirely different things depending on where they lived (or live now) and the time of year.

Someone living in a desert or the far north is not eating the same things someone living on the plains or a rainforest eats.

Generalizations about them eating some specific diet are just made up. But plenty ate large animals, mammoths, bison, whales, etc.

Newgirls · 22/03/2022 18:27

So apparently free range chickens are now in metal barns full time due to avian flu.

Not sure what you can call ‘high welfare’ chicken now.

headspin10 · 22/03/2022 19:40

@MangyInseam

True. There is literally no part of me that thinks or written in anything I've said online here or elsewhere which indicates I'm living free from causing harm. Previously in this thread you will see this is a point I have already made- that it's of course impossible to do so.

But I think anyone who deliberately pays others (almost always out of sight) to breed, raise and kill animals for their own pleasure is kidding themselves if they think that doing that is better than not doing that and not supporting that industry.

Meat and animal products are cruel, inefficient and not good for the environment as a whole and it's ultimately us using our power and intelligence to dominate and commodify animals that are more vulnerable than us. Plus it's unnecessary.

That is not ok with me.

Jijithecat · 22/03/2022 22:36

Carnivore, Vegan, Omnivore, Vegetarian, none of it is the answer if you're not actively reducing food waste. Food waste is so bad for the environment, it's morally reprehensible but we're 15 pages in and it's barely been mentioned.

iamusuallyright · 23/03/2022 06:39

@Jijithecat

Carnivore, Vegan, Omnivore, Vegetarian, none of it is the answer if you're not actively reducing food waste. Food waste is so bad for the environment, it's morally reprehensible but we're 15 pages in and it's barely been mentioned.
Yet another argument for veganism. Vegetable waste is far less toxic than meat or dairy waste.
Newgirls · 23/03/2022 11:23

Yes food waste is a massive issue in the UK. The irony of the rich being able to waste food when so many rely on food banks.

Love your leftovers!

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