To wonder if veganism really is the answer?

[RubyFruitSunday]

Lots of my friendship circle have transitioned to be vegan/vegetarian recently. I'm not, but we do choose to include very few animal products in our diet and eat a predominantly plant based diet. But sometimes I have a hankering for a steak or some nice cheese and so I indulge. However my friends think this means I'm part of the problem and it should be all or nothing.

I have a few issues with this but I dont know if I'm just clinging to them as justification to keep my animal based treats.

1. Animals eat other animals and we are animals. So I dont think eating meat is morally wrong from this perspective. I do object to factory farming and animals living miserable lives though. But its hard to tell what comes from where sometimes.

2. What would become of the English countryside without farming? I'm guessing a lot of the land currently used to graze animals wouldnt be suitable to grow other foodstuffs so would end up being built up? I'm not sure I like the idea of that either.

I'd love to know others thoughts!

@bruffin

"horses have canines I’m, pretty sure they don’t eat that much meat" Only in Males and use it for fighting

They are sometimes found in mares too.

Horses also have wolf teeth but I've never seen them eat any wolves, so I suspect that the names that humans choose to give various teeth are probably irrelevant.

Newgirls No cow farms near London

What does London have to do with what I said? I don’t live there.

Who knows? Anyway, there are plenty of cattle farms near London. Sussex has particularly lush grazing land, as do Hertfordshire and Essex. And Surrey. And just about every other of the Home Counties.

Do you ever eat bananas?
Nope sorry, I eat local and seasonal where possible and never bananas as they make me unwell!

Not sure what your argument is here
My argument is that I buy local seasonal produce, but a vegan person I know is calling that a disaster for the ‘planet’ but eats Jackfruit etc. my food miles are tiny compared to hers. You just wanted to have a ‘ah gotcha you eat bananas’ moment. Sorry to disappoint you.

Wow @Momijinbdibt hold back now! This is exactly the attitude that puts me off talking about food etc. You are calling me thick fur saying I won’t go vegan because of one product. I don’t say that please point it out to me, I’ll wait. Your reading comprehension needs some work before you call other people thick. I simply said it’s a vile product.

I am vegan and agree that there is lots of unnecessary fanaticism about converting to veganism and silly claims about environmental impact and health impact.

However, it is very easy to say veganism is unhealthy and has a greater environmental impact. Yet no one is in the same breath saying the same thing about non-vegans and those who live off processed foods and are wildly unhealthy. The fact is that most vegans have better weight management and the few studies suggest that being vegan seems to correlate with better health…although the evidence for this is still very limited. And of course flying in almond milk or avocados has an environmental impact, but the impact of animal farming is significant - the amount of water required for beef, and the amount of feed that cows require is shocking compared to the amount of food that is actually produced.

And this is before you consider the ethics in how many farms, including those in the UK are run, and the misery the animals are subjected to. Not eating meat or dairy is now an option, and one that I hope more people consider (and reduce the amount of meat consumed). Everyone has the right to make their own choice about their food food, but a lot people seem to get unreasonably angry (and defensive) about veganism. And I really don’t understand the argument about what will happen to all the (cows, pigs, chickens). As if living in a farm to be killed is a better alternative.

@SucculentChalice

Newgirls No cow farms near London

What on earth is a "cow farm?" Do you realise most beef stock are bullocks? Or are you meaning dairy?
.
Who knows? Anyway, there are plenty of cattle farms near London. Sussex has particularly lush grazing land, as do Hertfordshire and Essex. And Surrey. And just about every other of the Home Counties.

Do you ever eat bananas?

Me, no. I'm allergic to them.

Not sure what your argument is here

Yes, I can see that

did you really just ask "what on earth is a cow farm"?

Surely its clear she means a farm where farmers raise cows, either for dairy or for meat

@SucculentChalice

Newgirls No cow farms near London

What on earth is a "cow farm?" Do you realise most beef stock are bullocks? Or are you meaning dairy?
.
Who knows? Anyway, there are plenty of cattle farms near London. Sussex has particularly lush grazing land, as do Hertfordshire and Essex. And Surrey. And just about every other of the Home Counties.

Do you ever eat bananas?

Me, no. I'm allergic to them.

Not sure what your argument is here

Yes, I can see that

My point is most of the UK can’t eat ‘local’ raised beef or diary. It’s a fantasy perpetuated by the meat industry. Herts has a handful of farms that in no way feed their population alone. London cannot feed its population on ‘locally sourced food’ nor can any urban area. Even Scotland, Cornwall and Kent import food you know.

I suggest you read the National Food Strategy that was published last year. You’d learn a lot about the myth of local

It only took six posts for someone to bring up fucking avocado

I think anyone on here who thinks only vegan food is imported needs to take a look in their own cupboards!

@HangingOver

It only took six posts for someone to bring up fucking avocado

Yep cos no meat eater ever ate an avocado 🤦‍♀️

I'll keep eating it until they take it off the shelves. No point otherwise, it already died for the product to be sold, might as well eat it.

Yep cos no meat eater ever ate an avocado

I know. We make up like 2% of the population, it ain't us buy them all

These threads are so repetitive and frustrating. OP, please just read some useful scientifically sound resources and then make your own choice: planetbaseddiets.panda.org/

This thread is littered with misinformation, as a biologist the nonsense stated as fact makes me squirm. So much "I feel/believe therefore it must be true, and I'll use that to justify my prefered life choices". Mums net is not the place to research environmentally friendly food choices, if you are genuinely looking for info rather than a pat on the back.

Almonds though
Soy though
Avocados though

If you've mentioned any of these please do the tiniest bit of research.

However my friends think this means I'm part of the problem and it should be all or nothing.

None of my friends would dream of commenting on what I do or don't eat - and I wouldn't comment on their food choices. Eat what you feel comfortable with, it has nothing whatsoever to do with anyone else.

People who are obsessed with what they, or others, eat are tediously boring.

@Carpy899

Almonds though Soy though Avocados though

If you've mentioned any of these please do the tiniest bit of research.

Soy is used in animal feed

Nuts are eaten by non vegans too

Avocados are getting a bad press at oh exactly when bacon sales have plummeted. Do some critical thinking. Meat sales have fallen in the uk by 18% and the industry is looking for ways to claw back sales so quick! Blame vegans!

@Cluelessasacucumber

These threads are so repetitive and frustrating. OP, please just read some useful scientifically sound resources and then make your own choice: planetbaseddiets.panda.org/

This thread is littered with misinformation, as a biologist the nonsense stated as fact makes me squirm. So much "I feel/believe therefore it must be true, and I'll use that to justify my prefered life choices". Mums net is not the place to research environmentally friendly food choices, if you are genuinely looking for info rather than a pat on the back.

The National Food Strategy is very balanced with input from universities, food producers and retail. One key conclusion is the UK needs to eat less meat.

You're friends sound like sanctimonious pricks to be blunt.

I think vegan/vegetarianism is great and if you believe in it then go for it. Thrusting your beliefs onto other people is never cool.

*your

The meat and (especially) dairy industry is horrific and cruel. Most people would not be okay with a cat or dog going through what farm animals go through.

That is why people are vegan

@Plantlady10

The meat and (especially) dairy industry is horrific and cruel. Most people would not be okay with a cat or dog going through what farm animals go through.

That is why people are vegan

The dairy and egg industries are way more disgusting than the bog standard meat industry. Its why I can't fathom how anyone could be an ethical vegetarian.

@Newgirls re the myth of local - but would it not be more possible if everyone was eating much mess less, higher quality meat at higher prices?

@Plantlady10 you are absolutely right its cruel and I can't bear thinking too much about it.

My friends are a mix of vegans, vegetarians and meat eaters, we’re friends so we don’t comment on each other’s eating habits. The thing with friends is that you get to choose them, so pick ones that don’t comment on your food choices. Other than my friends knowing I will not buy, prepare or cook animal products and therefore know at my house, I won’t be doing that for them, we just get on with life.

That’s presuming this thread is real of course and not a ‘look at the vegans being preachy’ thread.

I’m a vegan and I’ve never eaten avocado in my life and I don’t each much processed food, certainly less than my partner who eats meat. I’m vegan primarily because I love animals, I do care about the planet but I think it’s beyond saving. Humans ruin things.

@AllOfUsAreDead

I'll keep eating it until they take it off the shelves. No point otherwise, it already died for the product to be sold, might as well eat it.

What strange logic. it's on the shelves BECAUSE people keep buying it. Supply and demand.

For me, it’s the same with eating meat. Yes, animals do it but they don’t know any better - we do (or at least should).

Playing devil's advocate, could it be that we as humans are doing what all animals have done throughout time but we have "evolved" and developed cooking techniques and variety etc but in essence nothing has changed since the stone age.

Branleuse did you really just ask "what on earth is a cow farm"?

Well, yes. Because I live on a farm, surrounded by farms, and I have yet to hear anyone talk about a "cow farm". Cattle farms, yes, but single sex reproducers, no. Not without AI.

Surely its clear she means a farm where farmers raise cows, either for dairy or for meat

No, its not. Its mainly bullocks, which are immature males, which are raised for beef.