AIBU to ask how anyone else copes being overcrowded?

[Lemontree1]

I am in an overcrowded very small 2 bed privately rented flat with 3 children.
The bedrooms are tiny.
To envisage how small the bedrooms are, a double bed can fit but nothing else maybe a bedside table, but no chest of drawers, or any other furniture.
According to the council, My 3 children are expected to share one of these bedrooms and myself in another room.
I can’t make them all share, as there physically isnt enough room to fit 3 beds in one room with all their toys, or any other furniture. (We don’t have vast amounts of stuff but 3 children combined do have a significant amount, and I am constantly decluttering)
So, I sleep downstairs on the sofa.
we are all on top of each other there is no where for me to escape and my mental health has been deteriorating for years now.
I have been told that I am not a priority and that there are bigger families in a one bed flat.
I don’t want anything fancy, just a room and a bed to myself and somewhere I can have time to myself.
I can’t get anywhere else privately as I can’t afford it, I work,but rent prices are high and I just can’t afford more than I already pay. I can’t work full time at least until my youngest boys are in school.
I am so claustrophobic and although I try my best this affects my parenting.
Also, for reference I have twins and a singleton. My children’s ages are 3,3 and 12. All boys, so apparently can all share until they are 16.

Is there anyone else in a similar situation? How do you manage to cope? I just feel like I can’t cope much longer, but have no idea how to get out of this situation.

Yes I’ve noticed op has avoided answering where she lives, I’m guessing
London and that’s why as she doesn’t want to be told to move somewhere cheaper. Also avoiding answering if the father(s) pay maintenance

www.homehunt.co.uk/what-is-homehunt I hope this helps.

I do feel for you OP and particularly for your 12 year old - he/she has GCSEs around the corner. Are they able to find anywhere to do homework etc.

@AHungryCaterpillar

Yes I’ve noticed op has avoided answering where she lives, I’m guessing London and that’s why as she doesn’t want to be told to move somewhere cheaper. Also avoiding answering if the father(s) pay maintenance

It does not matter if op lives in London or not. I don't get why people think London is just for the rich and everyone else should move out. Is London the LHA will be heigher than if op was outside of London. So her rent can still get covered when living in London. Also If ops work is local to her. Then she could loose her job or end up spending more money on travel. Also maybe she feels her children are settled in school/nursery.

(please note op has not said she lives in London)

Yes op has missed a couple of questions but that could be due to being stressed or that people on the thread will use it to have a go at her

Op you said there was a reason your child can't do 30hrs at nursery. I know you don't want to say but if your child has Any special needs look into getting dla as that will give you some extra money . It may also give you some push to get onto the housing list .

I feel for you OP, but it's not the councils responsibility to house you. Anyone that suggests it is, is living in a fantasy, pre Thatcher world.

if I was you I'd sleep in the lounge and give the children a room each. Ikea do a lovely l shape sofa that converts really quickly.

I think people are saying she should move from a more expensive area-if she lives in such an area-to one that is less expensive.

The trouble is that she can't have everything-a spacious home for three children-in an expensive area where she has a job and where the children may be settled.

So she has to decide what is the most important factor to her. As the twins are small and the older boy hasn't yet started exam courses, I would move to a less expensive area. It would mean looking for another job and leaving family behind but another job can be found and another support system built.

If she chooses not to move and stays in cramped accommodation then that is only going to become more difficult. The twins will not stay 3 for ever and at some point she will have two 8 year olds and a 17 year old. The eldest boy will have the shit end of the stick-no where to study, no privacy and no bringing friends around.

The choice is up to her but to me it would be a no brainer. I'd go where my children weren't in appalling cramped conditions. No matter what the council say, common sense says it is overcrowded.

I have asked if the dad is paying towards his children and there has been no answer. of course, she doesn't have to answer but it makes me think he isn't, so shaking him down for what he owes would be a good move. Chase him through the courts. He wasn't a dead beat three years ago or the OP wouldn't have chosen to get pregnant by him, so he must have something and she needs to do her best to try and get it.Unless he is dead or in prison, make the fucker pay up.

Do think about moving to where you can get more space for your money. There are schools, hospitals and jobs all over the country and you might even prefer living somewhere else!

She could move to a cheaper part of London, and if she does live in London it will explain why she isn’t priority to the council as London has much stricter housing policies than other areas, there are councils in London where you can’t even join the housing list, there are other ones where they will only consider you overcrowded if you need 2+ rooms. So yes it does make a difference where she lives.

I have thought about moving to a different area.
That is of course an option, and I would definitely consider it and may have to do that if I can’t find anything else in my area.
I want my kids to be happy and want my mental health to improve, so if that’s the solution then of course I would do it.

If you are going to move then try to do it sooner rather than later given your elder child's age.

But poor people should be able to live in London too, if it is their home.

@AHungryCaterpillar

She could move to a cheaper part of London, and if she does live in London it will explain why she isn’t priority to the council as London has much stricter housing policies than other areas, there are councils in London where you can’t even join the housing list, there are other ones where they will only consider you overcrowded if you need 2+ rooms. So yes it does make a difference where she lives.

But your making assumptions. She has not said she lives in London. Also making assumptions about his London councils work. They are all different. I live in London and I know other people in London. That are on low wages and get help with their rent so they can stay in London. Say for example say the rent for a 3 bed is 1400 most, possibly all. would get paid for the person who gets the help depending on their earnings. If a person moves out of London a bit and the rent is 1000. That would also get paid by benefits. The person does not get to keep the 400 extra that the London rent used to cost. So she would be no better off.

What a lovely mum you are OP giving up your bedroom for your son 🥰 I think this seems to be the only option in terms of room allocation. So what I would suggest is you keep your clothes in the bigger bedroom, and making the living room area into your bedroom, make it a lovely space with a good quality sofa bed or a nice day bed . Maybe it needs to be decorated in a style that you can still keep it as living room but once kids go to bed you can reclaim it as your bedroom. Maybe get your twins bunk beds so they have a bit more floor space in their room. Facebook market place and freecycle can be really good for picking up bargains and things for free so it doesn't have to cost you a fortune

@carefullycourageous

If you are going to move then try to do it sooner rather than later given your elder child's age.

But poor people should be able to live in London too, if it is their home.

No one is saying she can’t live in London, I live in London but zone 2 is extremely different to zone 5.. there are cheaper areas of London.

You've done the right thing by giving your eldest his own bedroom I would suggest bunk beds with storage underneath and storage you can mount on the wall rather than use precious floorspace eg, bookshelves. I've got storage solutions that hang off the back of doors that I use to hold my kids eczema creams but you can use them to hold art and craft supplies, shoes or socks and underwear.

It's really tough and I feel for you. The only other suggestion I have is trying to partition your living room if you can and be strict about toys and books, when they get new stuff you donate the older, less played with toys to charity.

@AHungryCaterpillar it is very hard for people if they move away from their support networks. I personally do not think people should be forced out, but accept this country is shite when it comes to housing policy.

But your making assumptions. She has not said she lives in London. Also making assumptions about his London councils work. They are all different. I live in London and I know other people in London. That are on low wages and get help with their rent so they can stay in London. Say for example say the rent for a 3 bed is 1400 most, possibly all. would get paid for the person who gets the help depending on their earnings. If a person moves out of London a bit and the rent is 1000. That would also get paid by benefits. The person does not get to keep the 400 extra that the London rent used to cost. So she would be no better off.

I’m making assumptions? erm no I’m not, Croydon council state you need to be lacking 2 bedrooms to be considered as Overcrowded, I’m not “making assumptions” I said certain parts of London are very strict on what they consider over crowded as there is such a shortage of housing, the op has chosen to ignore and hasn’t denied that it’s London so I believe it is.

[quote carefullycourageous]@AHungryCaterpillar it is very hard for people if they move away from their support networks. I personally do not think people should be forced out, but accept this country is shite when it comes to housing policy.[/quote]
Again she doesn’t have to leave London but a cheaper area will work better, it’s up to the op to decide whether a cheaper area will be better and more space or a more expensive area with less space.

@AHungryCaterpillar we are repeating ourselves now, I accept the OP can move - that is why I suggested if she is going to to get on with it - my overall position remains the same that UK housing policy is shite and it is not right that people are priced out of inner London. Those areas are where people grew up too.

Its almost impossible to find a landlord that will take people on who need help with their rent. Even if op could find a home . She's then got to fund a month's rent and the months deposit then moving costs on top . If she then had to give up her job due to moving to far she would then end uo on full benefits. Its not that easy to just find another job.

I'm in zone 3 . I have more children than the op. When I was working I got quite alot of help.

@Cookiecrumble22

Its almost impossible to find a landlord that will take people on who need help with their rent. Even if op could find a home . She's then got to fund a month's rent and the months deposit then moving costs on top . If she then had to give up her job due to moving to far she would then end uo on full benefits. Its not that easy to just find another job.

I'm in zone 3 . I have more children than the op. When I was working I got quite alot of help.

Thank you! Finally someone said it, i mention I get help with my rent, single mum 3 kids and I’ve honestly seen so many agents facial expression change and dismiss me. Suddenly their tone will change. I’ve had so many agents/ landlords tell me they will call me back, which has never happened, and if I’ve ever tried to chase anyone I’ve been made to feel like I’m aggravating them. I’ve even had one agent tell me they’ve had more important people to deal with. It’s soul destroying and you start to give up, because you think it’s impossible and you feel like a piece of shit, being looked down on.

I work as much as I physically can right now, I have no extra childcare so have to stay within nursery hours.
I pay all rent on time and keep my property nice.
I didn’t think things would turn out the way they have, I didn’t think I’d become a single mother.

But if we all didn’t do things because certain people might change their minds or certain things could happen then we wouldn’t do anything.

I'm taken aback that a PP has referred to three brothers sharing a bedroom as "appalling cramped conditions". I know it's nice for kids to all have their own room if you have space for that, but it's totally normal for siblings to share a room. MN is painfully snobby at times. People do the best with what they have, and if you honestly think that 3 boys sharing a bedroom is "appalling" then you really need to get out more.

@LadyPropane

I'm taken aback that a PP has referred to three brothers sharing a bedroom as "appalling cramped conditions". I know it's nice for kids to all have their own room if you have space for that, but it's totally normal for siblings to share a room. MN is painfully snobby at times. People do the best with what they have, and if you honestly think that 3 boys sharing a bedroom is "appalling" then you really need to get out more.

Two kids sharing is fine if they are under 10, after that children of the opposite sex should not be sharing. After the age of 16 a child should have his/her own room. Those were the bedroom standards employed when I dealt with the housing register. It wasn't that long ago either.

I am going to look into all my other options In terms of moving house.
I am currently registered with the housing association, but they cannot offer me anything Right now.
Council cannot help right now and I understand that.
I have had some lovely private messages with suggestions and will look into them.

I will also look into all apps and websites everyone has suggested.

If I can’t move within my area because of rent prices, available housing etc I will seriously consider another area.

I am currently enrolled into further education, and commit an hour every other evening, because I understand a better job prospects will improve our situation.
I have spoken to citizens advice, shelter and social services.
I am providing for my boys future with a savings account and all spare money at the end of the month after bills, food shopping, essentials goes in their accounts.

Short term, I will have a serious think about our sleeping situation and invest in better storage solutions and possibly a day bed for myself.
And a trundle for the twins.
Also I will have a major declutter.

For my mental health I’m determined to squeeze in something, be it really early in the morning at home as it’s the only time I have.

3 yo twins is the hardest stage. Old enough to know what they want, not old enough to be in any way shape or form reasonable. It will get easier.

Not been in your exact circumstances but have been squished and needed to carve out space for me in a crowded life.

I would say, start small. You may not have your own bedroom (and yes, I can completely see how twins change what would have been reasonable plans), but you can still carve out a bit of space for you. Do you have a favourite mug and plate? If not, maybe go out and find one in your two hours off. Doesn’t have to be expensive; a lovely teacup and saucer from a local charity shop will do. Make it yours. Keep it out of reach of the twins. And make it unattractive to your twelve year old. Mum’s cup. And when they are in bed, make yourself a cup of your favourite hot drink. Stash a packet of your favourite biscuits somewhere.

Boys in bed, you can just sit. Drink tea. Eat a biscuit. Or a piece of fruit if you’d prefer. A sugar free mint. Whatever floats your boat. Your space, your time.

Treat yourself to a fancy smelling shower gel. Or hand cream. Or a nice candle. Again, doesn’t have to be expensive. But just something which you can differentiate me time from mum time. Candles great actually, if you’re sleeping in the sitting room. They’ll hide all the clutter and chaos and reduce the pressure on you to have it all organised.

Longer term, I’d recommend a sofa bed which folds away with the bed made up. It’s miserable having to strip the bed each morning and remake it every night. And if you’re like me, you’ll not bother, and your bed will be out all day and become trampoline and den and everything else. If that’s not in the budget, then see if you can stretch to an extra large throw which will cover it all up during the day at least and which you can whip off at bedtime. Again. Less jam and stickiness all over your sheets.

Others have said it best about being ruthless over toys and clutter and chaos. Budget and rental means you’re limited in what storage you can add. But have a look at what space you do have. If you currently have a dining table, is there space for boxes underneath it for the twins’ toys? Or drawers for your clothes? Or with a long tablecloth you’ve got a fine sensory den for them to nest into if that’s what they need too.

Agree big time with posters who said try to be an outdoorsy family if you can. Certainly get them out for a run each day if you can bear to. Get them into the habit of running and jumping and bouncing outside, so that inside becomes the place for calmer behaviour. Not easy, not always possible. But if you can get that going, it will help with the feel inside too. And it’ll get sunlight on all of you, which will help with mental and physical health.

If you don’t have any outside space attached to the flat, see if you can grow something on a windowsill. Mustard and cress will grow on a sheet of damp kitchen roll or in an empty egg carton. Or a houseplant in a little pot. Something green. Something alive. Something to bring hope.

Don’t need to know the reasons why one of your twins might not manage 30 hours (or where you live, or anything else really!). But since you mentioned it, so check that you are claiming everything you might he entitled to - if there’s a chance he might qualify for dla that would not only bring a little more into the mix but could potentially open the door for other benefits too, as well as bumping you up the council house list if medically appropriate. Also there should be early years funding for nursery to give him additional support, if it is more a case of nursery not coping with him than him not coping with nursery. All of which may be completely irrelevant so apologies if that’s inappropriate. If he does have additional needs then your 12 yo might be able to tap into some young carers support too, although that varies hugely area by area. Locally, it means they periodically buy all teen carers a new bike or skateboard or similar and then vanish for another 11.5 months. Still. Better than nothing.

This won’t be how it is forever. And there will come a time when you can look back on it and wonder how on Earth you ever got through it. But you will muddle through. And it will be ok. And your boys will know you did everything you could for them.

But in the meantime, go and claim that teacup. Make a little space for you in the eye of the storm.

@SilenceOfThePrams

3 yo twins is the hardest stage. Old enough to know what they want, not old enough to be in any way shape or form reasonable. It will get easier.

Not been in your exact circumstances but have been squished and needed to carve out space for me in a crowded life.

I would say, start small. You may not have your own bedroom (and yes, I can completely see how twins change what would have been reasonable plans), but you can still carve out a bit of space for you. Do you have a favourite mug and plate? If not, maybe go out and find one in your two hours off. Doesn’t have to be expensive; a lovely teacup and saucer from a local charity shop will do. Make it yours. Keep it out of reach of the twins. And make it unattractive to your twelve year old. Mum’s cup. And when they are in bed, make yourself a cup of your favourite hot drink. Stash a packet of your favourite biscuits somewhere.

Boys in bed, you can just sit. Drink tea. Eat a biscuit. Or a piece of fruit if you’d prefer. A sugar free mint. Whatever floats your boat. Your space, your time.

Treat yourself to a fancy smelling shower gel. Or hand cream. Or a nice candle. Again, doesn’t have to be expensive. But just something which you can differentiate me time from mum time. Candles great actually, if you’re sleeping in the sitting room. They’ll hide all the clutter and chaos and reduce the pressure on you to have it all organised.

Longer term, I’d recommend a sofa bed which folds away with the bed made up. It’s miserable having to strip the bed each morning and remake it every night. And if you’re like me, you’ll not bother, and your bed will be out all day and become trampoline and den and everything else. If that’s not in the budget, then see if you can stretch to an extra large throw which will cover it all up during the day at least and which you can whip off at bedtime. Again. Less jam and stickiness all over your sheets.

Others have said it best about being ruthless over toys and clutter and chaos. Budget and rental means you’re limited in what storage you can add. But have a look at what space you do have. If you currently have a dining table, is there space for boxes underneath it for the twins’ toys? Or drawers for your clothes? Or with a long tablecloth you’ve got a fine sensory den for them to nest into if that’s what they need too.

Agree big time with posters who said try to be an outdoorsy family if you can. Certainly get them out for a run each day if you can bear to. Get them into the habit of running and jumping and bouncing outside, so that inside becomes the place for calmer behaviour. Not easy, not always possible. But if you can get that going, it will help with the feel inside too. And it’ll get sunlight on all of you, which will help with mental and physical health.

If you don’t have any outside space attached to the flat, see if you can grow something on a windowsill. Mustard and cress will grow on a sheet of damp kitchen roll or in an empty egg carton. Or a houseplant in a little pot. Something green. Something alive. Something to bring hope.

Don’t need to know the reasons why one of your twins might not manage 30 hours (or where you live, or anything else really!). But since you mentioned it, so check that you are claiming everything you might he entitled to - if there’s a chance he might qualify for dla that would not only bring a little more into the mix but could potentially open the door for other benefits too, as well as bumping you up the council house list if medically appropriate. Also there should be early years funding for nursery to give him additional support, if it is more a case of nursery not coping with him than him not coping with nursery. All of which may be completely irrelevant so apologies if that’s inappropriate. If he does have additional needs then your 12 yo might be able to tap into some young carers support too, although that varies hugely area by area. Locally, it means they periodically buy all teen carers a new bike or skateboard or similar and then vanish for another 11.5 months. Still. Better than nothing.

This won’t be how it is forever. And there will come a time when you can look back on it and wonder how on Earth you ever got through it. But you will muddle through. And it will be ok. And your boys will know you did everything you could for them.

But in the meantime, go and claim that teacup. Make a little space for you in the eye of the storm.

I began to feel tears in my eyes coming to the end of reading your reply. What lovely things to say I’ve actually had my eye on a tea set in a local shop, it expensive for the whole set but individually not too pricey. I’m going to treat myself now and buy maybe just the cup and saucer.

Also thank you for the advise for the extra support with my son.
I will private message you with some more details.
As I’m a little unsure on some things and could really do with chatting to someone about it.

Again thank you x

@loislovesstewie it's all very well saying that children over 16 should have their own room but if the parents don't have enough rooms and can't afford to move then they just can't.

Quite a few of my neighbours have children over 16 sharing and the area I live in is not a particularly poor area.