To not fit in because I'm working class

[Shadowmallow]

I'm from a working class background and I grew up with little money. I did very well academically and managed to go to a top uni and get a good degree, despite not feeling like I belonged. I've worked hard for 15 years to establish my career in a competitive industry with no financial support, which has resulted in a lot of stress and debt over the years.

I work in an industry that's generally full of wealthy, middle class people who dont seem to have any anxieties about life or financial limits (despite the salaries not being that much). I've recently started a new job and feel really out of place, like I do at every job. My colleagues have very different lifestyles and conversation topics to me. Eg. House renovations, skiing holidays, private schooling, second homes in Europe. I'm 36 and 'still' rent a small flat with a friend, which seems to surprise and provoke pity amongst my colleagues. Most had property bought for them/got deposits from their parents years ago and speak like this is standard practice. I rarely go on holidays and don't have any expensive hobbies as I've been trying to save for a house deposit for many years.

To get to this point in my career I've really struggled financially and mentally and I'm pretty tired. I dont feel like im seen on the same page as everyone else at work and think it also affects my career progression. I just wonder if I can ever belong here.

I think you need to stop looking for class differences, it really doesn’t matter any more.
Just be yourself.
Were you like this at Uni, comparing yourself to others ?

It's much harder to be working class, I know, I've done it.

And I get the feeling of not fitting in. But at 36, you have the power to steer these conversations - what about finding more common ground even if its about a TV programme?

If I'm honest, it sounds like you're seeing class as a reason not to make an effort - people tend not to like people who make everything about class (and this is what you're doing albeit the opposite way to someone prattling on about skiing!)

Good luck

Just because you might have different lifestyle to them doesn't mean they are going to dislike you; they won't all be snobs. Lots of people have very different living circumstances and still get on. Talk about things you want to talk about and are interesting. They talk about their lives because that's what they know - it doesn't mean they aren't interested in other topics or people. So you're not on the same page as some of them. Doesn't necessarily mean you can't get on and be happy there. Try not to assume that they are looking down on you just because you've had different experiences from each other - it really doesn't have to be the case. I've got to know people who are much better off than me and have very different lifestyles, but we can still get on. They might not be renting, or wondering about which electricity tariff; I might not be planning my next holiday, but it doesn't mean we can't still discuss those things with each other, along with other things.

I can relate to that, with the added fun of being Asian.

I’ve stopped trying to fit in, I just talk to those I get on with, and ignore those I don’t.

I try and be professional with everyone but I don’t really dare beyond that, colleagues come and go.

You should read Rob Beckett's autobiography

I just wonder if I can ever belong here.
I don't understand. Why do you want to belong to a career that causes mental and financial struggles?
Sorry, I know that doesn't sound very supportive but it does seem weird.

It’s other people’s perceptions too.

I think you need to be proud of your achievements and try not to care that you don’t have the same background as them.
You have done phenomenally well! Take your place and head up.

Watch the amol Rajan programme about how to break into the elite. It’s very interesting.

I was like this, and no matter how successful it was a nagging insecurity, as I’ve got older I don’t give a damn and also realised most people also don’t care, we just think they do and it’s a nagging peck in the ear, they really don’t.

Are you trying to change the topic of conversations to things you'd rather talk about? Even if it's a conversation that doesn't directly relate to your life, can't you join in anyway?

Your OP makes you sound like you're seeing their class as a problem and resenting them (houses / deposits from families etc) which is a totally natural feeling, but is it colouring how you're viewing rather normal topics of conversation? (Normal in the sense they're not talking about lunch with the queen / which Ferrari to take to Monaco at the weekends etc - middle class normal)

I would say don't worry about it except the career progression. Do you think it's really holding you back?

I kinda know what you mean, I grew up mc but immigrant parents. It was only at uni I made friends with people who weren't 2nd gen immigrants & then I went to work & the vast majority of my colleagues were privately educated. I wasn't but a lot of people assumed I was.

The part of London I live in has gentrified massively & only the umc can afford it now. Sometimes I do feel out of place in conversations because although our income levels may be similar I don't have the 200k help to move up the ladder or the 50k gift for a new kitchen. A friend has just come back from a holiday in the Maldives with her parents which cost 40k. I definitely don't fit into that world & one you notice it you can't unsee it but Ive never thought it held me back n

it really doesn’t matter any more.

Unfortunately it still does although it's changing, slowly.

@GeneLovesJezebel

I think you need to stop looking for class differences, it really doesn’t matter any more. Just be yourself. Were you like this at Uni, comparing yourself to others ?

Hilarious!

It really doesn’t matter any more if your colleagues are securely housed and using their housing as investment while you continue to rent into your mid-30s? It really doesn’t matter any more if the privileges of their birth allow them to enjoy a lifestyle and the cultural capital that you are denied because you have a working class background?

OP, it sucks and it’s unfair and draining and difficult. But you can’t undo what got you and what got them to where you are now. Comparison can indeed be the thief of joy, unless you use the comparison to remind yourself how strong, smart, resourceful and resilient you have had to be to get to your current role.

Belonging is over rated. But if it isn't paying enough for your personal progress, honestly find something else that does.

I know what you mean, I worked for a charity and it was all posh voices, large houses, hobbies were playing in string quartets etc. I never tried to fit in, and was just me and am still friends with loads of them, albeit through facebook these days as I've moved countries. As have 2 of them so I'll meet up with them in various countries in Europe at different points.

You're not working class, you're just not as well off as your colleagues are. You can either go through life hanging disappointments on the working-class-hook or accept that, even though life's not fair sometimes, you can still be happy with your lot as you've done really well academically and professionally - a big pat on the back!

I think this is more about you than them to be honest. Be proud of who you are, you are 36 you have achieved so much.
You need to stand proud and celebrate who you are.

Most people blag it. You earn the same as them why does it bother you?

You fit in to places because of people being nice to each other not what they have. With respect you seen to have bit if a chip on your shoulder.

Just be nice to them and if they say they're off skiing and you can't afford to do that say what you are doing , whether it's going to the pub or saving to pay the gas bill.

Involve them in your life don't be ashamed of it. You bring other elements to the group

You will fit in.

My close friendship group involves multi millionaires, a famous musician, someone so broke he will have to move back to his parents house, and a friend who lives in a campervan.
And me a teacher ..
Class only exists in your mind really

I get what you are saying and the struggle you have had and are still experiencing. Your work sounds poorly paid and doesn’t seem like it is financially rewarding. You may not want to say what area you work in but perhaps if you disclosed this someone could offer advice.

@AlisonDonut ‘belonging is overrated’ love that! 💯 % agree.

The OP feels like she doesn't fit in because even though she's done all the right things to get ahead & better her life she still feels behind. She hasn't got that leg up that many people dismiss & take for granted & for most how your family can help is more important than how much you earn which is pretty depressing & not great for social mobility.

@Billandben444

You're not working class, you're just not as well off as your colleagues are. You can either go through life hanging disappointments on the working-class-hook or accept that, even though life's not fair sometimes, you can still be happy with your lot as you've done really well academically and professionally - a big pat on the back!

I agree. The class system here in England does seem to be largely voluntary, and if you work - as I suspect - in an industry like publishing, where people come from educated background and work their backsides off to earn 30k, you might find that you are LOOKING for differences, rather than looking for similarities. Surely everyone in your office isn’t on the same salary as you and going skiing etc? Are you being shafted on your salary? Is your perception of “not belonging” holding you back from being more pushy about raises?

It is true though that certain industries are dominated by certain classes, and it often coincides with unimpressive salaries, even if you are really good, so I’m certainly not saying this is all in your head.

You’ve been “middle class” for exactly half your life now, if you want to look at it that way, so don’t let the first half become a chip on your shoulder.

If it is publishing, follow Sam Missingham on Twitter - she talks a lot about class barriers in publishing,

@coodawoodashooda

You should read Rob Beckett's autobiography

I’ve just listened to the audiobook and automatically had the same thought!

I have felt this at every work place to be honest - i live an unconventional lifestyle and have always found the conversations of my colleagues difficult to engage with as we have nothing in common. Its really hard to join in a conversation about TV programs if you do not have a TV.

You need to learn how to mask and mimic - listen in and smile and nod and say meaningless pleasantries - and try not to socialise with them very much. They will all think you are just a private person and it gets easier in time. I suspect in a few years as you settle into the work you will begin to have more in common with them.

With career progression, in previous jobs colleagues have all got on well and gone on skiing trips together, go to each others homes for dinner parties, horse riding hacks, go to private member clubs together etc. and theyre the ones who all get promotions and acknowledged for their work. I get on well with everyone I work with, genuinely, and always go out for lunch, drinks etc. but usually I just don't get invited to these extra curricular activities!

It wouldn't matter so much if you didn't let it bother you. You should be proud of who you are. People who grow up in wealthy or better off families can't take the credit for that. It is just their good fortune.

My parents are relatively well-off. They weren't until I was a teen and my dad had a career change where he earned a lot more. He invested more than he spent so has had money to give me at various times in my life.

Most people I know and particularly those I work with are not necessarily in a similar position (or maybe just keep it quiet). So I don't talk about it unless I'm with someone who I know is. I have felt embarrassed for having no money worries at times!

Join conversations you are interested in and can contribute to, avoid others. That's what everyone else does.

Pre covid, at work, many colleagues discussed all their holidays abroad. Due to the nature of the work, many other colleagues do not have the funds for such things, and some never go on vacation at all. It would be sad if people couldn't talk about their own lives though, for fear of offending someone.

Don’t assume that being middle class means your life is easy. Both my parents have (different) terminal illnesses, diagnosed within a year of each other. I don’t talk about it much, especially not at work. A girl I grew up with was extremely wealthy and her father beat her mother every day until eventually he killed her. You have no idea what challenges other people might be going through.