To not fit in because I'm working class

[Shadowmallow]

I'm from a working class background and I grew up with little money. I did very well academically and managed to go to a top uni and get a good degree, despite not feeling like I belonged. I've worked hard for 15 years to establish my career in a competitive industry with no financial support, which has resulted in a lot of stress and debt over the years.

I work in an industry that's generally full of wealthy, middle class people who dont seem to have any anxieties about life or financial limits (despite the salaries not being that much). I've recently started a new job and feel really out of place, like I do at every job. My colleagues have very different lifestyles and conversation topics to me. Eg. House renovations, skiing holidays, private schooling, second homes in Europe. I'm 36 and 'still' rent a small flat with a friend, which seems to surprise and provoke pity amongst my colleagues. Most had property bought for them/got deposits from their parents years ago and speak like this is standard practice. I rarely go on holidays and don't have any expensive hobbies as I've been trying to save for a house deposit for many years.

To get to this point in my career I've really struggled financially and mentally and I'm pretty tired. I dont feel like im seen on the same page as everyone else at work and think it also affects my career progression. I just wonder if I can ever belong here.

[quote Gazorpazorp]@beastlyslumber I’d give up everything I own to have my Dad recognise me and my Mum see my son grow up. OP should be thankful for what she has rather than wasting her time envying boring (and rude!) people who drone on about money.[/quote]
Of course. I'm sorry you're going through this, and wish you the best.

But I think you're missing the point about the class disparities and discrimination being discussed in this thread. Class isn't just about money, it's about connections, lifestyles, knowing the 'right' ways, having the codes to access the important elements of a career or workplace. And then being told that class is 'all in your head' or just 'envy' when you're stopped from getting ahead because you weren't able to join the company ski trip or you didn't go to the same prep school as everyone else in your office.

I said YANBU because it is perfectly understandable why you feel a bit out of place. But I think you need to grow a thick skin. You don't need to be the same as these people. You don't need to feel less than them or as if you ought to emulate them. You don't have to like them or admire them.they are just colleagues.

I've spent enough time around these people to know I will never have anything in common with them however rich I became, because I don't give a stuff what your kitchen looks like or how many holidays you have or what you drive. Just can't care. They are perfectly nice people but of a pretty closed type. Feelings are never discussed. Ideas are never discussed. There's zero in depth interest in the arts, books, music. It's quite a surface focus - all very jolly and positive and enjoyable. I don't doubt they have great lives. But you are not inferior to them in any way.

Just get on with your work, forge strong working respect with them, get on at a superficial level and make sure you keep busy with people you really connect to outside of work. Maybe keep an eye out for someone who isn't so driven by material wealth and hasn't grown up in its cocoon, or has but knows it.

I completely get it OP. I went to Oxbridge in the early 90s from a comprehensive school in a fairly deprived part of London. I absolutely didn't fit in there and honestly never really have anywhere since either although to be fair after my uni experience I have never been quite so acutely aware of it.

I do find work colleagues with their kids at public school (paid for from the family trust fund) or their new million pound house largely paid for with money inherited from Granny quite irritating. We have regular catch up calls (as we all WFH) which usually descend into bragging about what they're spending, where they''re going for a city break etc. It is tiresome and quite tone deaf.

That said, outside of work most of my local friends (who are more similar in terms of working class background) are all better off than me too, albeit less braggy - they run businesses with their husbands and all do very well. I'm used to being the poor relation now, even though I'm the one with the professional job - albeit that it doesn't pay as well as having your own construction business! (they are always surprised I'm not paid more)

OP, all you can be is yourself, and it sounds as though that's more than enough. Easier said than done I know, but try to resist the urge to compare.

Some of the responses on here really remind me about those who say it don’t see colour/race’

You should and recognise how much harder it is for certain sectors of society to achieve and make it.

OP, this is so sad. I get how you feel, a little.

I come from a very working class background, lived in a council flat etc but passed my 11+ and got a scholarship to an independent school. Most of my class had ponies and went ski-ing, we didn't even have a phone or a car. I felt really excluded and I'm disappointed that that things haven't improved in the subsequent 50+ years.

However, that was one of the things that radicalised me politically, and that has stayed with me ever since.

You've got where you are entirely on your own merits and are probably better at your job than most of those who get their jobs because of social networks and the old school tie. You deserve it and I'm sure you will rise above it.

If it's making you desperately unhappy, do you have skills that are transferable to the public sector? I suspect you might be much happier there, it's much more egalitarian and accepting.

I should add that my career progression has been terrible - despite excellent academics - because I didn't have the right connections via my dad's golfing buddies, or my mum's pals at the yacht club, or people I went to prep or boarding school with or sailed with in Cowes week . Plus I didn't look or sound 'right'. I mentioned on a curly hair thread the other day I was told more than once that my hair was unprofessional.

I've come to terms with it now, I'll never have a glittering career and I would have been financially better off as a plumber or other skilled trade than in my professional role ith my Oxbridge degree. C'est la vie I guess.

Be proud and be you.

The majority off people I know who have the 2nd homes, holidays skiing, private school are mortgaged up to the eyeballs and paying it all on credit.

Be proud of what you've achieved and try not to compare - as you don't walk in thier shoes.

So one day when you buy a house, are you not going to renovate it? And do you really want to join in a discussion about private schools and 2nd homes in Europe? I wouldn't, leave em to their boring conversations

@Shadowmallow

With career progression, in previous jobs colleagues have all got on well and gone on skiing trips together, go to each others homes for dinner parties, horse riding hacks, go to private member clubs together etc. and theyre the ones who all get promotions and acknowledged for their work. I get on well with everyone I work with, genuinely, and always go out for lunch, drinks etc. but usually I just don't get invited to these extra curricular activities!

I find it interesting how many posters are dismissing your experience as if you are being over sensitive.

This kind of networking is entrenched privilege for the affluent who are disproportionately white and male. You are told to "network" to progress in your career but the networking activities are largely inaccessible to people outside a select group. Its a form of institutional discrimination just like other forms of discrimination or barriers to progress.

Yes to that ^^

You sound like you have Imposter Syndrome - that you feel you don’t deserve your success or that you don’t “belong” where you work.

Have a look at this interview with Michelle Obama, she covers it very well but as she says it is something only YOU can resolve. You need to get used to telling yourself “yes I deserve this” and believing it.

@C8H10N4O2 yes to that!

It's infuriating this still happens and is dismissed as being 'over sensitive'. It's absolutely discriminatory.

I see it so often, almost exclusively white men 'networking' in their little clubs where promotions or opportunities are given to their golf/ski/football buddies. Perks like weekends golfing at high end clubs, exec boxes at sporting events, ski trips etc that are never offered to people outside the 'inner circle' and it is a huge barrier to women, BAME, working class and pretty much anyone not a rich, white man.

Honestly it sound like you have the issue in every job you've felt the same .
It's strange that you know all your colleague parents have bought or given them houses have you not just assumed

Stop comparing yourself .

Thanks for this, think it sums up what I mean well!

I really don't think your social circle is in any way representative of average earners.

Where on earth did I say it was?!

You're not working class. You are a professional with a university education - that makes you middle class and you need to own your status in life now not the status you were born into.

Also, you're in your 30s, I can't believe that you haven't made contacts throughout university and your career. I also don't believe everyone else in your workplace came from privilege or that it means they don't have any anxieties or financial worries. Class doesn't always denote wealth.

My family are working class. I went to an RG uni, etc. I've been in workplaces where my colleagues were landed gentry; had relatives in the House of Lords, etc. I never felt I didn't belong because I was there on merit.

Counselling might help OP. You're framing your difficulties as unsurmountable and outwith your control. You can't control where or how you were born. You absolutely can control how you fit now. And your class should not impact on career progression. An appointment with a career or hr professional might help too.

I agree it sounds like you have Imposter Syndrome - perhaps something to do some reading around?

Separately, other than this thread, what do you want to do about these feelings? Is this a catalyst to look into moving to a new role or changing career? Or moving to a new area? Where do you want to be at 40 and how do you see yourself getting there?

Just some things to think around - sorry that you’re having a tough time.

I am sort of middle class (it's complicated) but even as a pretty impoverished student used to prioritise going on skiing holidays because I tried it once and found out I love skiing. (I didn't do it as a kid, I grew up on a council estate). Me and 3 friends drove all the way to switzerland in a Ford Fiesta and slept on the floor of a friend of a friend who was working as an instructor. We ate sandwiches the whole time, with ingredients bought from the supermarket, because we couldn't afford to eat out at the restaurants. Later when I met my DP we did similar 'cheap' skiing holidays and usually spent less than we would on an TUI type week in the sun.

What I'm trying to say is, don't assume that everyone else is all the same and you are the odd one out. People might mention things that sound very middle class but class is now a funny thing, and lots of people are a weird mixture that makes them hard to pigeon-hole. You sound very self-focused - I would just relax about it all. It's not that important.

It's called "imposter syndrome", OP. I used to do it all the time. I come from a working class background, went to an ex-poly university, first person to go to university etc and have a post graduate qualification. I've often worked with far more privileged people and also far less.

I turn it on it's head and have a little chuckle to myself that the upper-middle class Cambridge graduate finds themselves in the same role as me.

Where do you work where all these colleagues have had support with housing, go on joint ski trips, house renovations etc. I get the sense this isnt entirely true. Their is a minority of individuals who benefit from connections. I dont know anyone from very wealthy parents who had their house bought for them or even a paid deposit.

I am working class, i live in a very wealthy area of london, my kids go to private school and guess what we have gone skiing. I have done well for myself too. I was initially anxious being in circles who I felt were 'posh' or might judge me. However this was my own insecurities. I think you need to seek some support for yourself as you seem to have confidence and self esteem issues

@rogueone

Where do you work where all these colleagues have had support with housing, go on joint ski trips, house renovations etc. I get the sense this isnt entirely true. Their is a minority of individuals who benefit from connections. I dont know anyone from very wealthy parents who had their house bought for them or even a paid deposit.

I am working class, i live in a very wealthy area of london, my kids go to private school and guess what we have gone skiing. I have done well for myself too. I was initially anxious being in circles who I felt were 'posh' or might judge me. However this was my own insecurities. I think you need to seek some support for yourself as you seem to have confidence and self esteem issues

Possibly parts of the civil service. Some parts are racially and often in terms of sex and sexuality, diverse, but certainly not in terms of social class.

I've got friends of all different backgrounds and races I don't know why you assume that they only want to know other middle class people. I have much more admiration for the achievements of my friends from working class backgrounds than my own because they had to work a lot harder.

If you don't feel like you fit in perhaps you are give off stand offish vibes so they just assume you're not that interested in them?

Also - I find it hard to believe that that there is literally no-one else from a comparable background. There is no profession where everyone is middle class any more - even the twattiest areas of law.

My experience isn't quite as bad as yours sounds, but I have certainly noticed a difference: there are the people who seem to easily get new jobs, get promoted, or get funding to start up their own companies without actually doing any real work along the way. And the rest of us who put in the work but get nowhere. I am now very glad to be out of it.
How keen are you to stay in your current industry? How transferrable is your experience?

Is mentoring an option at work? Or through your professional body if applicable.
If you’ve worked in a variety of firms and felt this way are there any moves you could consider to hopefully break out from such a narrow world eg go to an in house role or move to a northern city or even abroad.