To not fit in because I'm working class

[Shadowmallow]

I'm from a working class background and I grew up with little money. I did very well academically and managed to go to a top uni and get a good degree, despite not feeling like I belonged. I've worked hard for 15 years to establish my career in a competitive industry with no financial support, which has resulted in a lot of stress and debt over the years.

I work in an industry that's generally full of wealthy, middle class people who dont seem to have any anxieties about life or financial limits (despite the salaries not being that much). I've recently started a new job and feel really out of place, like I do at every job. My colleagues have very different lifestyles and conversation topics to me. Eg. House renovations, skiing holidays, private schooling, second homes in Europe. I'm 36 and 'still' rent a small flat with a friend, which seems to surprise and provoke pity amongst my colleagues. Most had property bought for them/got deposits from their parents years ago and speak like this is standard practice. I rarely go on holidays and don't have any expensive hobbies as I've been trying to save for a house deposit for many years.

To get to this point in my career I've really struggled financially and mentally and I'm pretty tired. I dont feel like im seen on the same page as everyone else at work and think it also affects my career progression. I just wonder if I can ever belong here.

This isn't a class issue, it's a money one. Presumably if you had more money, you would fit in better as you would be able to access these luxury services (if you wanted).

I can totally relate to this, OP.

Is there any way to change career to a different industry where you'll make more money? It sounds like some people can afford to work in your industry because they're wealthy to start with, so the salaries don't matter so much. I'd be thinking about where I could make a LOT more money.

And where do all of these people on MN live who get bought houses? I am (lower) MC but don't know anyone that got that! On MN it seems every poster works with 'everyone' who got a house given to them.

Do you want to go skiing or horse-riding? Maybe you've not showed any interest in that. You can be interested in people's holidays and things they've seen, even if you're not doing it yourself. Or maybe you haven't shown that you're likely to want to go if invited, or you've told them you coudln't afford it. That doesn't mean they don't like you or that you can't fit in - you just do different things. They aren't necessarily looking down on you as a result. If you go for lunch, drinks etc then it sounds like they like you just fine. You are never going to change things so that you have the same background as them, or they you, so you'll have to stop focusing on that and think about the present, and what you have in common. It doesn't mean you can't fit in to the current situation and chat about what you have in common now. They might have different lifestyles than you, sure. People always will. It doesn't mean that they are snobs or they hate/pity/look down on you - they can't help their background any more than you can.

Hi OP. I sympathise. I work in FS and came from a council estate. I think this is all about the way in which you think about it. There will be some activities you will be excluded from. Some of these for me are male ones as well as class based- how much networking for example is done at golf/football/rugby days where not only do I not attend, but also am never invited? However, you actively need to think about how you counteract these. Do you have a mentor at work? If not does your organisation do mentoring? I had one and am now a mentor- this gives you a a great perspective. What about woman's groups at work? Again this can counteract the rugby/golf thing. You as a person are interesting and so are your interests. No reason to not invite people round and if you do this they will invite you back. From experience, they are probably not as sensitive to this topic as you and will be friendly if you are. One of the best things one of my mentors said to me is that the past is for reference, it is not for residence. You are good at your job, push it forward!

@Gazorpazorp

Don’t assume that being middle class means your life is easy. Both my parents have (different) terminal illnesses, diagnosed within a year of each other. I don’t talk about it much, especially not at work. A girl I grew up with was extremely wealthy and her father beat her mother every day until eventually he killed her. You have no idea what challenges other people might be going through.

That's awful.

Imagine going through those challenges with no money, no access to the career you want or years of education, no way to get counselling and therapy, stuck in a shitty housing estate etc etc.

OP is not saying middle class people have perfect lives. She's saying she gets left out because their lifestyles are extravagant and funded by their parents, whereas she's had to work her way from nothing.

And where do all of these people on MN live who get bought houses?

I live in Wandsworth & don't know anyone including myself who bought without help. I'm unusual that I only have 1 property, most people I know in their 30s have 2 or 3.

Do you enjoy a social life and friendships out of work OP? Have you got hobbies? Are relationships with your family good? Do you have a partner ?

And do you really enjoy your job/career aside from the feeling you don't fit in with your colleagues ?

It seems to me that you have spent a long time working really hard, yet you don't have financial reward or have the benefit of feeling relaxed with your colleagues . I am guessing that you live in London if the role you have worked so hard for doesn't pay enough for you to be in the position you would hope to be housing wise .

If the rest of your life is enjoyable, positive and what you would have hoped for then you can just move on with your relationship with your colleagues being strictly professional . You don't have to socialise with them or feel excluded , they are colleagues not friends .

But if there are other areas of your life that aren't quite right perhaps it's time to reevaluate what you actually want out of life .

My neighbour is selling her flat for 800k to a cash buyer who's buying it for her child. That's the 4th property on my road to be purchased by parents for their dc.

I was like this too. Even to the point where my manager brought me in and had a word with me about how I spoke because apparently I would occasionally drop my T’s or I said words that they didn’t understand ... it really upset me but I was so young that I didn’t have the balls to take it up with them so I tried my best to conform. However whenever I would be around my family I felt like I couldn’t fit in either because I had to revert back to the ‘old me’. It was hard and in the end I just decided to be me.
I do remember when I started one question a colleague asked was ‘so are you a skiier or a snowboarder?’ where as I had never been skiing or snowboarding and still haven’t.

My advice is to just be yourself, it’s good to be surrounded by those that aren’t from the same background because you get to share life experiences. I always make sure I’m representing the working class whenever topical subjects come up (benefits, council estates etc) and they are keen to listen and it makes me feel like I’m educating them about our real world.

Just be you.

Just be nice to them and if they say they're off skiing and you can't afford to do that say what you are doing , whether it's going to the pub or saving to pay the gas bill.

I suspect you can't imagine how it feels to be the person who took that advice and frequently experiences colleagues' social inability to deal with how lost they feel in such conversations. Then they stop trying and avoid you. It's real and can be very painful and confusing. You feel like you're putting them in an awkward position by speaking openly and honestly about how your life is in the kind of areas you suggested. People who can't imagine themselves in your position (and there are many of them in the kind of environment OP probably works in) feel oddly confronted and they will then choose to speak predominantly with those they can 'identify with'.

Class only exists in your mind really

It's actually unethical and downright dangerous to dismiss the OP's concerns in this way, because it's actually much more real than you care to acknowledge

It’s all those subtle differences that if you belong dont register.I experienced similar at uni due to race and class.

Now I opt out of conversations bar being mildly interested. I know I’m good at my job (after years of feeling not).

That elite programme talks about the ‘secret code’.

There have been a lot of tone-deaf responses so far, showing a complete lack of understanding or empathy for the situation OP describes. On the one hand, OP’s achievements suggest the system in the UK is a meritocracy, but the inequality of access to inherited wealth means others enjoy a level of financial security and a lifestyle which isn’t accessible to OP despite their achievements and hard work. More importantly, in my experience, many of OP’s colleagues will be living free of anxiety about their financial future, which is a real privilege.

There are a whole host of unspoken assumptions and social cues amongst colleagues/friends with a similar background of financial security and to tell OP to be glad they pulled themselves up by the bootstraps and not to compare themselves to others is totally unreasonable. Unfortunately, class (or family wealth) does still have a massive impact on financial security and housing, regardless of academic achievement and career progression - all the “this sounds like a you problem” stuff is unhelpful and quite unkind.

@seekinglondonlife

This isn't a class issue, it's a money one. Presumably if you had more money, you would fit in better as you would be able to access these luxury services (if you wanted).

It's a class issue too, because all these people have handy connections made through private schools, know how to network, and have been raised on certain lifestyles and a certain standard of living they want to maintain, and they seem to prioritise this and other people who are similar. I dont really have any interest in these things and would never be someone I'm not. All I want for in life is some housing security and the ability to get away now and again to go walking/hiking.

Essentially, I can't do anything for them in the workplace, so why am I of any use to them?

It’s similar to Muslims who may not participate in pub culture or smoking.
There’s been a few articles about this.

@baroqueandblue

Just be nice to them and if they say they're off skiing and you can't afford to do that say what you are doing , whether it's going to the pub or saving to pay the gas bill.

I suspect you can't imagine how it feels to be the person who took that advice and frequently experiences colleagues' social inability to deal with how lost they feel in such conversations. Then they stop trying and avoid you. It's real and can be very painful and confusing. You feel like you're putting them in an awkward position by speaking openly and honestly about how your life is in the kind of areas you suggested. People who can't imagine themselves in your position (and there are many of them in the kind of environment OP probably works in) feel oddly confronted and they will then choose to speak predominantly with those they can 'identify with'.

Class only exists in your mind really

It's actually unethical and downright dangerous to dismiss the OP's concerns in this way, because it's actually much more real than you care to acknowledge

From the responses received, it's easy to see who truly understands what the OP is saying and how she feels. For many of us, it's the same, for others, they are oblivious.

@beastlyslumber I’d give up everything I own to have my Dad recognise me and my Mum see my son grow up. OP should be thankful for what she has rather than wasting her time envying boring (and rude!) people who drone on about money.

I used to be accused of having a chip on my shoulder if I called out racism.
Since BLM it’s good to see others calling racism it out too.

@Shadowmallow

Essentially, I can't do anything for them in the workplace, so why am I of any use to them?

Your response says it all to me. You are putting up barriers for yourself This is in your mind.

They may have different outlooks on life but that's fine and it's interesting listening to others perspectives? Ask them about it? Then say what you're doing. They will also be interested. But you seem very dismissive of them.

[quote Gazorpazorp]@beastlyslumber I’d give up everything I own to have my Dad recognise me and my Mum see my son grow up. OP should be thankful for what she has rather than wasting her time envying boring (and rude!) people who drone on about money.[/quote]
There’s a difference between individual circumstances and societal differences.

Even the Tory government are recognising the need to level up.

@flounfer, really, 2 or 3 London properties in their 30s? Why are all of MN then claiming they are priced out of London? I really don't think your social circle is in any way representative of average earners.

Own it OP. I’m proud to come from a working class background, it opens my eyes to real hardships and life experiences that many won’t understand.

This isn’t a you problem at all. I completely understand what you are saying, but own it. You are capable just as much as everyone else, despite your background.

I am middle class but my parents were quite frugal. One of my best friends from work is from a working class background and honestly I never really think about it.

I would feel a bit off with people talking about ski trips and private school too, I wouldn’t even say that’s middle class more upper middle / upper class.

I think you need to stop thinking of this as a barrier and a difference. It might be more in your head than you think. Surely there’s some things your have in common?

@Shadowmallow, they ALL have connections and you are the only one who doesn't? What are you doing to try to break into circles? How are you networking?