To not fit in because I'm working class

[Shadowmallow]

I'm from a working class background and I grew up with little money. I did very well academically and managed to go to a top uni and get a good degree, despite not feeling like I belonged. I've worked hard for 15 years to establish my career in a competitive industry with no financial support, which has resulted in a lot of stress and debt over the years.

I work in an industry that's generally full of wealthy, middle class people who dont seem to have any anxieties about life or financial limits (despite the salaries not being that much). I've recently started a new job and feel really out of place, like I do at every job. My colleagues have very different lifestyles and conversation topics to me. Eg. House renovations, skiing holidays, private schooling, second homes in Europe. I'm 36 and 'still' rent a small flat with a friend, which seems to surprise and provoke pity amongst my colleagues. Most had property bought for them/got deposits from their parents years ago and speak like this is standard practice. I rarely go on holidays and don't have any expensive hobbies as I've been trying to save for a house deposit for many years.

To get to this point in my career I've really struggled financially and mentally and I'm pretty tired. I dont feel like im seen on the same page as everyone else at work and think it also affects my career progression. I just wonder if I can ever belong here.

Comparison is the thief of joy, look at what you have achieved, by yourself, it's easy to be successful when you have wealthy parents. I have family members with vast wealth and it's hard sometimes when you're worrying about the rent/mortgage and they don't have these worries, I just tune it out. Their lives aren't perfect and they have their own problems, it just looks perfect from the outside xx

Use your uniqueness as your strength, be the one who is different because of where you came from, revel in it. I never understand why people want to fit in all the time.

And remember you are probably the highest achiever there, given where you started from.

Yes!!! Hard to do small talk, they don’t know how to relate to you, they don’t know how to “place” you, you don’t fit in any “tribe” they know… I’ve fallen through the cracks definitely. No one wants to really positively back me. They haven’t seen people like me in leadership roles before. But it’s not a “wow here’s a first!” it’s a “we’re just not quite sure of her” thing.

Totally get it. Yes class is still a massive factor in ever getting a job and then progressing.

Possibly parts of the civil service. Some parts are racially and often in terms of sex and sexuality, diverse, but certainly not in terms of social class.

Even that is still not more than 50-60% private school. And middle classes aren't necessarily super wealthy anyway (big house deposits etc).

The sector with the highest number of private school alumni is senior judges, and at 36 OP is unlikely to be one.

I have much more admiration for the achievements of my friends from working class backgrounds than my own because they had to work a lot harder

Yes but not everyone is like that. There are a lot of people who are absolute raging snobs and will dismiss you when you are revealed to be not like them.

I doubt very much anybody thinks about you the way you believe they do. Being in a house or flat share in your thirties is not unusual so don't worry about that. You're single too and how you live your life is your business, you have time in which to change things. Don't have a chip on your shoulder, it will show, others will notice and feel awkward with you. You've no need anyway, you're well educated so walk tall.

Many people from working class backgrounds have carved out excellent careers, some spectacularly. You've done extremely well, good for you. Your background should not in any way impede your career progression, what matters is how good you are at your job.

I think I have repeated myself a bit here but some things do need to be emphasised.

It sounds as though you are fed up with the place and maybe it's time to look for another job. Take your time about it and do your research but if you are not happy for whatever reason, move on. Also try and pamper yourself a bit, you deserve a treat.

Good luck.

Even that is still not more than 50-60% private school

Only 50% from private school? Well, that's just fine then. No diversity issues to worry about there. Nothing to see there, nope.

It’s about how others treat you and respond to you. It’s fine to adopt a don’t give a fuck attitude but it can get too much/ overwhelming.

One of my best friends has a very expensive house and plays in a string quartet but she’s actually from the same area as me and just happens to have a nicer accent. She’s really lovely and not snobby at all.

First of all, be proud of yourself. Secondly, take the long view. Many of your colleagues had help from their parents. If you choose to have children, you will hopefully be able to give them more support/advice than your parents were able, and so on. You also don't seem to be in a relationship/marriage. From a financial perspective, there is a huge advantage to having a two income household.

I'm working class born although my dad has a professional job so is my OH but we have worked ourselves up into professional jobs. All our friends outside of work are working class, I prefer their humour and outlook on life.

I find the people who get promotions are the ones who are very confident, always talk themselves up, get their face noticed and really push themselves forward. My OH is brilliant at his job, been there years, knows it inside out but he gets on with things quietly on his own, doesn't push himself forward and so gets overlooked.

He is white male but from a working class immigrant family so he could blame it on that - but knowing what the people are like who are promoted over him it is not because they are cleverer or know the job better or are richer or from a higher class - it's because they are very clear that they are looking to move up and always pushing themselves forward making it clear how important they are to the company.

Perhaps you need to stop labelling yourself as working class and letting the fact that you still rent define you in negative ways. Start putting yourself forward, tell people how hard you've worked to get where you are, tell people the trials you've had to go through. Be you but be confident and assertive. You've done amazingly and you don't have to keep quiet because you haven't been skiing and don't own a house yet. People are more likely to be impressed that you have got this far without any support if they are half decent people.

@AnnesBrokenSlate

You're not working class. You are a professional with a university education - that makes you middle class and you need to own your status in life now not the status you were born into.

Also, you're in your 30s, I can't believe that you haven't made contacts throughout university and your career. I also don't believe everyone else in your workplace came from privilege or that it means they don't have any anxieties or financial worries. Class doesn't always denote wealth.

My family are working class. I went to an RG uni, etc. I've been in workplaces where my colleagues were landed gentry; had relatives in the House of Lords, etc. I never felt I didn't belong because I was there on merit.

Counselling might help OP. You're framing your difficulties as unsurmountable and outwith your control. You can't control where or how you were born. You absolutely can control how you fit now. And your class should not impact on career progression. An appointment with a career or hr professional might help too.

Thanks. I dont really want to belong to any class club, but unfortunately that's just the way society and then workplace seems to operate still.

I really wouldn't consider myself middle class or care to identify as such. Degree educations are ten a penny now. I think class is more reflective of cultural and social factors and engrained family wealth than income or education level. In my opinion, if you have to work for all your income in order to afford to live, you're working class.

You’re not imagining it up OP.

There’s a huge amount of social signaling that goes on at work and progress does not necessarily happen according to merit because of it.

I feel for you.

You are going to have to work on not giving a fuck what your random posh colleagues do or think. Youre unlikely to be the only working class person there.

I'm middle class, working in a charity where the trustees are upper class and the service providers working class, and the service users working class also. There's a fairly standard education strata between the three categories too.

So on the one hand I get handed instructions in Latin (which I do understand) and on the other I have to be careful with my vocabulary/not let slip I have a cleaner because they'll back off from me and give me side eye for being posh etc.

I think that people who say "class doesn't exist any more" consist solely of people who are stuck in a middle-class bubble without a huge variation of people. (my last role was like this - everyone from a variety of backgrounds, interests etc, but they all broadly fit into middle class)

@Rosehugger

Even that is still not more than 50-60% private school

Only 50% from private school? Well, that's just fine then. No diversity issues to worry about there. Nothing to see there, nope.

Didn't say there weren't diversity issues, my point was that there must therefore be people around outside the background OP describes if 40-50% are not private school alumni.

(And that's assuming she's in the civil service which is the least diverse profession I can think of - it's not true of law or medicine any more.)

@Shadowmallow I don’t think people are dismissing the impact of the class system or disbelieve that class partly determines how successful you are in a career, it’s just that this is not a plausible belief system for someone in their mid 30s. There are tons of successful working-class people in many industries. I think the issue is that this industry seems to be one where there is no financial reward. You said that you are sharing a flat in your mid 30s. To me that’s not typical. Usually professionals will live in a small studio or flat but sharing, especially if you’ve spent 15 years in the same industry, seems unnecessary.

The problem seems to be that you’ve picked a very low paying career that doesn’t sound like it’s particularly merit based. I’m really curious to know which career this is because even careers in the arts or in publishing, the working class people that I seen who are truly talented by their mid 30s have connections, mentors or a group of similarly working class people to work with.

Can you say more about the industry? Because it sounds like this is a formal industry dominated by the upper middle classes but there is no opportunity to progress on merit and there is nothing creative or interesting in the role that would draw people to you regardless of class?

What on earth do you do?

There is nothing wrong with being WC and nothing wrong with having to achieve everything through your own efforts rather than hand outs. Quite the reverse. Its a very positive thing that you should be proud of. You need to stop feeling inferior to people who are simply luckier because their parents are wealthy and were able to give them advantages. Embrace your class and be proud of it. Unless your colleagues are a bunch of closed minded snobs unable to see beyond people exactly like them, your class should not be a barrier to fitting in. You fit in at work through shared goals, contributing to tasks with others, support, humour and yes, socialising. But surely not every colleague goes skiing and horse riding?

I think that people who say "class doesn't exist any more" consist solely of people who are stuck in a middle-class bubble without a huge variation of people

Definitely.

In my opinion, if you have to work for all your income in order to afford to live, you're working class.

By that definition a huge swathe of middle classes are working class.

And some working class families can and do help their kids financially, particularly immigrants from cultures where it's the norm.

"In my opinion, if you have to work for all your income in order to afford to live, you're working class"

OP, this is a very odd definition of working class and not one that is widely used. Yes, it would differentiate the aristocracy and titled, but the vast majority of middle class people also have to work for all their income.

Disturbed by how many replies minimise your feelings or place the blame on you as if you are just being chippy or negative. Particularly outrageous the posters asking whether this career is for you if you object to working alongside the privileged!

It is reasonable to notice and be troubled by these differences, and particularly the detrimental effect being an 'outsider' has had on your career and your lifestyle. But, you have also done an amazing thing. And I don't know what your industry is but it needs you - it needs more working class people, more first gen immigrants, more POC, etc etc etc. It's shitty to be the one leading the charge, especially if the culture really hasn't changed, but also you really deserve to be there, and you are making a path for the next generation which will hopefully be more diverse. The labour of altering the status quo should absolutely not be your responsibility, but your presence there is very valuable nonetheless. Good luck, OP, you are important.