Aibu to wonder what Russia is up to in Ireland..

[Chamomiltea]

Reading this was a shock, given recent events... www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2022/0310/1285699-russian-embassy-orwell-road-irish-government/

Ireland absolutely did not pay any ransom to the hackers, that’s a total piece of fake news.
Ireland has limited exposure to Russian money/ investment
It’s not credible to suggest any government party has links to Russian money or have acted in their favour , have a think about what the Irish government have been up to in the past few weeks in terms of supporting sanctions, visas and using their role on the UN and diplomatic links. And of course Ireland currently holds influential positions in the EU.
Certain independent MEPs have more have more questionable voting records if you have a look.
Ireland has always been a fertile space for spies - it’s perfectly placed geographically and socially between USA, Britain and Europe with strong personal and political connections to all three . The activity for example during 2nd WW - on one side quietly providing information to help with d day landing, code breaking , communications for the allies, then on the other there were some nazis running around Dublin trying to get a foot hold.
And finally the name - as PP have pointed out the name is Ireland, may be described as Rep of Ireland . It’s well recorded why using diminutive names is designed to diminish the status of states ( putting the in front of Ukraine is the obvious example of misnaming)and why the use of Eire/ Southern Ireland or even the free state is loaded with sensitivity.

There are international standards for how to refer to countries so as not to upset or disrespect anyone.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/open-standards-for-government/country-codes

The global list has
United Kingdom
Ireland

Within the United Kingdom the break-downs are
England
Northern Ireland
Scotland
Wales

Anything else depends on the context and who is doing the talking, but using "Ireland" and "Northern Ireland" is the way least likely to upset or disrespect anyone so it is what I use.

I'm shook that Eoghan Murphy, Minister for Absolutely No Housing, Like None actually managed to do ONE useful thing in his political life before he slid back under a rock "moved on" to new pastures

@SlatternIsMyMiddleName

“Occupied 6 counties”. Give me strength!

I wrote it specifically that way to see if it was picked up by anyone as to how it could be perceived as being offensive. It's not correct to call the 6 counties of Northern Ireland as 'occupied', nor is it correct to call the remaining 26 counties "Southern Ireland". That is all.

I'll get my coat and try and cross the moat to Cork

In an effort to get the conversation back on track I love the idea of Dermot Bannon doing "Rooms to Improve" and going WAYYYYY over budget and I loved it when the Garda car was parked across the gates of the Russian Embassy, all decked out in it's vibrant blue and yellow colours which happen to be the very same (if a bit more vibrant) as the flag of Ukraine!!!!

I suppose it makes a nice change for him from mowing down homeless people in tents 😑

[quote borntobequiet]At any rate, its the ROI posters who've derailed the thread

Facts are important, and the naming of the separate parts of the island of Ireland particularly so given the general ignorance of the UK population, some of whom still think that Ireland is part of the UK.
Andrew Bridgen, Tory MP and prominent Brexiter, claimed in 2018 that being English entitled him to claim an Irish passport.

[/quote] The example of Andrew Brigden is irrelevant here as the derailment has occurred precisely because several ROI posters took "offence" at the name used by a Northern Ireland poster.

The South started calling itself "Ireland" as part of its "One island, one country" mantra. In fact, the constitution of the South from 1937 to 1999 maintained that Northern Ireland is their "national territory" which is illogical in international law contexts. Russia and China have the same kind of logic vis a vis Ukraine and Taiwan.

Despite the change in the ROI constitution, many citizens in the Republic continue to insist on the old, outdated territorial claim over Northern Ireland. This is seen in the name they use - "Ireland".

Hence, it's pretty inappropriate to call the southern state "Ireland" which I don't.

Rather amusingly, there are a good number of Irish Republicans who logically assert that the Republic of Ireland is NOT "Ireland" since partition is still a political reality.

Gerry Adams is one - "The Louth TD called on "the government and others to stop describing this state as Ireland".

"This is not Ireland. Its title is the Republic of Ireland. Ireland is the entire island as we all know," Mr Adams said."

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/republic-of-ireland/the-republic-is-not-ireland-gerry-adams-tells-coveney-38303311.html

So, the insistence on "Ireland" from the DeValera Government onwards is based on a sense of territorial claim over Northern Ireland itself. And is rather contrary to the GFA.

Furthermore, it's ridiculous some ROI posters assert that it's Éire only if one is speaking Gaelic. This convention doesn't exist anywhere else in the world and anyone can continue to call it Éire if they wish.

It's in the ROI constitution after all.

[quote Bintymcbintface]@ochonagusochonoh The island of Ireland is two different countries, Northern Ireland and Southern Ireland[/quote]
Good God. I can only assume geography was not one of your better subjects at school.

To paraphrase - There are none so ignorant as those who will not learn.

Vis a vis "occupied 6". This is something I simply ignored as it's ahistorical and pretty transparent what the poster was trying to do.

Adults can ignore such things, you know.

Most people don't use official names if countries. They use popular shorthand.

Bit of a tangent there but to answer the OP’s question, yeah they are spying for sure and setting up interception systems but then diplomatic staff don’t just sit around eating Ferrero Rocher all day , they gather information, set up networks etc. it just becomes a problem when it’s a nefarious embassy of a country with a policy of whipping up public dissent to create division to destabilise, undermining European economies and union etc

ROI, Ireland and Éire are acceptable names for Ireland. Southern Ireland is not. We are not defined by the partition of our island.

@donquixotedelamancha

Am I the only one surprised that Orwell Road is in Dun Laoghaire Rathdown? I thought it was in South Dublin.

Please don't call it South Dublin, that's offensive. There is just North Dublin and Dublin.

That reminds me of the time I met someone from Dublin (while I was living in London) and I mentioned something about a north/south divide in Dublin. She said she'd always thought there was an east/west divide. So I asked where she originated from in Dublin and she said "Howth".

When Boris Johnson didn't know he was at a party

@Blackcatsocks

ROI, Ireland and Éire are acceptable names for Ireland. Southern Ireland is not. We are not defined by the partition of our island.

Except for two things:

1. there are many who insist that only "Ireland" is acceptable.

2. the people of the entire island ARE defined by partition.

Sorry wrong thread!

These threads always get detailed and go a bit boogaloo. I'm in NI and might refer to "down south" or to "the free state" (with tongue in cheek and nailing my colours to the old mast) but it is the Republic of Ireland, not "Southern Ireland".

Anyway: I'm all for the undercutting the Russian vodka market with Poitín idea

Am I the only one surprised that Orwell Road is in Dun Laoghaire Rathdown? I thought it was in South Dublin.

Please don't call it South Dublin, that's offensive. There is just North Dublin and Dublin.

grin grin grin*

@Frazzled50yrold

'P.s. Southern Ireland is generally not considered an acceptable term to refer the the country of Ireland' Considering I live in Northern Ireland I consider Southern Ireland to be a perfectly acceptable term.

Where is Southern Ireland? Do you mean Cork? @Frazzled50yrold

The problem with Éire in English, DownNative is that Eire (without the fada) was used as a put-down by the British establishment for years as they refused to say Ireland. So there are certain connotations with its use in English now. Not everyone's aware of the history and most people mean absolutely no offence, of course.

@BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation

What do the Irish government intend to do about this? Surely this needs to be stopped and the personnel there should be expelled?

It's not happening. Permission was revoked. It's in the article.

@Bintymcbintface

I'm not, they're different countries, not a wind up geographical fact 🤷‍♀️

So much ignorance about Ireland in this day and ahead. Do better!!

The example of Andrew Brigden is irrelevant here

No it’s not. It was used to illustrate the very poor understanding of the distinction between Ireland and the UK is even among high ranking politicians.
Anyone who mistakenly believes that Ireland is in the United Kingdom - to the extent that any (English) British citizen is entitled to an Irish passport - would be particularly concerned by the idea of such works being applied for in the Russian Embassy in Dublin.
Russia as a global player thrives on misinformation, confusion and divided loyalties. Correct factual information helps protect against that.

Where is the ignorance? Are you saying that they're one country? Because they most definitely are not.

Just to correct you there DawnNative, the written constitution of Ireland states in clear English that "the name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland". Doesn’t really matter how you double down on this, it’s there in black and white and has meaning and intent. There’s a long documented history of this but even a quick google on Wikipedia explains.There are official conventions /guides on how to address countries for a reason, it’s to avoid offence. Ireland is absolutely not unique in this - lots of other countries have complicated histories and relationships and what ‘shorthand’ you choose to call another country can be loaded with intent.

@LizzieAnt

The problem with Éire in English, DownNative is that Eire (without the fada) was used as a put-down by the British establishment for years as they refused to say Ireland. So there are certain connotations with its use in English now. Not everyone's aware of the history and most people mean absolutely no offence, of course.

On the contrary, that is only a partial explanation from.

Even when Éire with the fada evident, I've seen many ROI citizens put down other GB citizens for using that. I Usually tell GB citizens they've done nothing wrong.

And its in the Constitution.

@DownNative

Vis a vis "occupied 6". This is something I simply ignored as it's ahistorical and pretty transparent what the poster was trying to do.

Adults can ignore such things, you know.

Most people don't use official names if countries. They use popular shorthand.

Seems pretty transparent what you are trying to do too re the ‘southern state’