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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Aibu to wonder what Russia is up to in Ireland..

463 replies

Chamomiltea · 10/03/2022 21:59

Reading this was a shock, given recent events... www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2022/0310/1285699-russian-embassy-orwell-road-irish-government/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Inerve · 11/03/2022 14:36

@LizzieAnt

Is it orchestrated to divert attention away from perhaps nefarious activities by the Russians in the Embassy in Dublin? Derailment by the bots in the Embassy Basement lol. I wouldn't be surprised

Ah no, I doubt it.
This happens all the time!

I was being tongue in cheek, but at the same time would not put anything past the Russkies!

Just saying that the Ireland naming issue is just so boring and irrelevant to the heretofore enjoyable banter about Orwell Road!

JaneJeffer · 11/03/2022 14:37

You're flat out on Wikipedia @DownNative Grin

LizzieAnt · 11/03/2022 14:41

Sorry, missed the lol Inerve Grin I guess part of the problem is we don't have a clue what they're up to, only suspicions...there was a good piece in the Irish Times about it at the start of March I think. Can't seem to link, not sure if someone else has already.

SoItWas · 11/03/2022 14:47

In my unionist majority part of N.I, we usually call the Republic "down South" or sometimes I hear "the free state" (which I quite like, it has a nice ring to it?)

Ulchabhan · 11/03/2022 14:47

@DownNative

“Irish Gaelic” is indeed acceptable, though rarely heard.

Most Irish people will refer to our native language as Irish if speaking English and Gaeilge if speaking Irish. My point was that “Gaelic” is not an accurate description of the language spoken in Ireland.

DownNative · 11/03/2022 14:52

@LizzieAnt

I've supported my argument that "Ireland" was used for decades by the Irish Government in their united Ireland agenda. That's very clear from quotes by Irish Government ministers and civil servants.

Vis a vis the Department of External Affairs quote, I'm actually saying that Irish Government wanted to use "Ireland" instead of "Éire" as seen here:

"....to prevent the use.....of expressions which are not in accordance with our external position and may prove embarrassing to us on policy grounds.”

Basically, their external position was “Ireland's claim to complete freedom of her entire territory.”

That means the entire island and, therefore, the Irish State should take the name "Ireland" in furtherance of their anti-partition agenda. To not to do so meant, in their view, their claim to the entire island could be undermined.

Indeed, it was argued in the Dàil they should adopt the name "Ireland" to prevent Northern Ireland from doing so. This would have ruined their political claim over the entire island.

That, I'm afraid, is the crux of that specific issue.

The assertions made by others is ahistorical which is why they cannot quote anything in support of their argument.

ScrambledSmegs · 11/03/2022 14:53

@Sweetmayday

RTE have a show called Prime Time, I was watching it last night and they were on about it. What they had planned to build was huge, 3 3 storey buildings with underground rooms and 2 other seperate buildings as apartments for staff.They would have had their own independent water supply and petrol supply, so if the Irish water system was contaminated they would not be impacted. Also they show raised concerns about the amount of people employed by the Russian embassy, 30 Russian nationals compared to the 4 Irish nationals in the Irish embassy in Moscow. It's the second largest embassy after America.
Woah!
JaneJeffer · 11/03/2022 14:54

@SoItWas

In my unionist majority part of N.I, we usually call the Republic "down South" or sometimes I hear "the free state" (which I quite like, it has a nice ring to it?)
And down here we say "up the north" Grin
DownNative · 11/03/2022 14:56

@SoItWas

In my unionist majority part of N.I, we usually call the Republic "down South" or sometimes I hear "the free state" (which I quite like, it has a nice ring to it?)
Correct!

What I find somewhat amusing is I only ever hear "Free State" used by Republicans, usually in a sneering manner. For them, the 26 County Republic of Ireland State is illegitimate too which many usually forget.

Yet their party, Sinn Féin emerged as the biggest in the south.

DownNative · 11/03/2022 14:59

[quote Ulchabhan]@DownNative

“Irish Gaelic” is indeed acceptable, though rarely heard.

Most Irish people will refer to our native language as Irish if speaking English and Gaeilge if speaking Irish. My point was that “Gaelic” is not an accurate description of the language spoken in Ireland.[/quote]
In practice, I've never seen any objection to Gaelic for the language. "Irish Gaelic" translates in English as "Irish Irish" which is absurd.

It's just not problematic vis a vis the language which I've no problem with either before anyone assumes.

MurderAtTheBeautyPageant · 11/03/2022 15:03

In Ireland 'Gaelic' is shorthand for gaelic football.

DownNative · 11/03/2022 15:05

@OchonAgusOchonOh that's it - I DO use the term Republic of Ireland.

And explained why "Ireland" isn't used for the south. It's pretty clear what I'm saying if one actually reads correctly. Hmm

DownNative · 11/03/2022 15:12

@MurderAtTheBeautyPageant

In Ireland 'Gaelic' is shorthand for gaelic football.
Not strictly, it doesn't. On either side of the border. Context of a conversation makes it clear which one is being referred to.
JaneJeffer · 11/03/2022 15:12

@MurderAtTheBeautyPageant

In Ireland 'Gaelic' is shorthand for gaelic football.
Yes
MurderAtTheBeautyPageant · 11/03/2022 15:13

On my side of the border, Ireland, gaelic is shorthand for gaelic football.

Inerve · 11/03/2022 15:17

The United KINGDOM is ruled by a Queen.

Quare old world.

LizzieAnt · 11/03/2022 15:17

[quote DownNative]@LizzieAnt

I've supported my argument that "Ireland" was used for decades by the Irish Government in their united Ireland agenda. That's very clear from quotes by Irish Government ministers and civil servants.

Vis a vis the Department of External Affairs quote, I'm actually saying that Irish Government wanted to use "Ireland" instead of "Éire" as seen here:

"....to prevent the use.....of expressions which are not in accordance with our external position and may prove embarrassing to us on policy grounds.”

Basically, their external position was “Ireland's claim to complete freedom of her entire territory.”

That means the entire island and, therefore, the Irish State should take the name "Ireland" in furtherance of their anti-partition agenda. To not to do so meant, in their view, their claim to the entire island could be undermined.

Indeed, it was argued in the Dàil they should adopt the name "Ireland" to prevent Northern Ireland from doing so. This would have ruined their political claim over the entire island.

That, I'm afraid, is the crux of that specific issue.

The assertions made by others is ahistorical which is why they cannot quote anything in support of their argument.[/quote]
But we know that history DownNative?
That's what I meant by saying it's not at all confusing and never was. It doesn't need explaining (in Ireland), as least not if you're a bit older, as I am.

The position has changed over the years though.
And the Irish state relinquished their constitutional claim on NI in the Good Friday Agreement. Today, if I say I'm from Ireland, it doesn't mean I'm pushing for reunification or that I think Ireland the state means more that 26 counties. It's been that way for a long time actually, for most people here anyway, I think?
I do, of course, appreciate that those in NI have a different perspective on naming.

eggandonion · 11/03/2022 15:18

You mean the Ga

Ulchabhan · 11/03/2022 15:19

Down Native 1432 ““Irish Gaelic” is an acceptable term to use”

Down Native 1459 “”Irish Gaelic”” translates in English as “Irish Irish” which is absurd.

DownNative · 11/03/2022 15:25

@MurderAtTheBeautyPageant

On my side of the border, Ireland, gaelic is shorthand for gaelic football.
It's not universal across the Republic, in fact. Here's what one Munster man stated:

"....we do call it Gaelic football or Gaelic more often than just football."

GAA is also common on both sides of the border.

It's odd how you think it's a homogenous kind of thing.

JaneJeffer · 11/03/2022 15:29

@DownNative it is common here to differentiate from soccer as a lot of people play both. You don't live in Ireland so you can't tell people that it's not used in that way when it most definitely is.

DownNative · 11/03/2022 15:34

@Ulchabhan

Down Native 1432 ““Irish Gaelic” is an acceptable term to use”

Down Native 1459 “”Irish Gaelic”” translates in English as “Irish Irish” which is absurd.

No, what I'm saying there is that expecting someone to call it "Irish Gaelic" each time is absurd since its the same word twice.

And that it makes sense to call the language Gaelic. Context will make it clear which Gaelic language is being referred to.

It's difficult nor is it a contradiction.

MurderAtTheBeautyPageant · 11/03/2022 15:35

"....we do call it Gaelic football or Gaelic more often than just football."

Ummm, yeah, that's exactly what I said? 'Gaelic' refer to gaelic football.

But thank you for looking for proof to back up my point.

JaneJeffer · 11/03/2022 15:35

Just call it Irish like everyone else does. Problem solved.

YerWanIsGettinNotions · 11/03/2022 15:35

@SoItWas

In my unionist majority part of N.I, we usually call the Republic "down South" or sometimes I hear "the free state" (which I quite like, it has a nice ring to it?)
You actually like it? Do you like the "Free State" because you think "ooh, free sounds nice, it's a positive thing isn't it"?

And if so (giving you the benefit of the doubt here because honestly you don't sound like a windup merchant), do you know that the "Irish Free State" was the name given to it post-partition in 1921, and unionists generally use it because they don't like to acknowledge the existence of the Republic and are loathe to use the name "Ireland"?

(That's probably why republicans use the "Free State" term with such disdain, as someone mentioned.)