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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think Zelenskyy needs to stop demanding a no fly zone

449 replies

WilsonMilson · 08/03/2022 13:33

The war is awful, it’s heartbreaking to see what is happening in Ukraine. Zelenskyy has been exceptionally brave, but his current rhetoric that ‘until a no fly zone is put in place that every death is on NATO’ is reckless.

A no fly zone means WW3. No one wins then, the whole world burns. He needs to stop blaming us for not getting into what would undoubtedly be a nuclear war with Russia. It is a terrible situation, but implementing a no fly zone would be crazy.

OP posts:
BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 08/03/2022 13:35

I don't understand why countries aren't allowed to close their own airspace? Why is it up to Nato or other countries to say so?

SickAndTiredAgain · 08/03/2022 13:37

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

I don't understand why countries aren't allowed to close their own airspace? Why is it up to Nato or other countries to say so?
I don’t know - but I’d imagine it’s more the ability to enforce it that he needs?
Original poster
WilsonMilson · 08/03/2022 13:37

It doesn’t mean closing own air space, he’s asking NATO to implement a no fly zone - ie we shoot down any Russian aircraft that enters the space. That is an act of aggression and would start WW3.
Containment and negotiation is what is called for, not escalation.

OP posts:
Lubeyboobyalt · 08/03/2022 13:38

YABU due to Putin being a cowardly bully who would absolutely not use his nukes. There is a long time understanding that using them means Armageddon. He won't want to rule over rubble and the starving. If no one stands up to him that sends the message that his pissy little threats work and Georgia and Moldova are next, and then god knows who.

Dogsandbabies · 08/03/2022 13:39

Countries can close their airspace. But in the specific case do you think the Russian army will observe the closure?

Ukraine is asking NATO to be involved so that they police their skies and shoot down invading aircraft with NATO missiles. Which will escalate the war beyond Ukraine.

Of course Zelensky should keep asking for help. Even if it isn't possible he has a duty to his people to keep asking.

DaggerIsle · 08/03/2022 13:41

No fly zone would mean shooting down any Russian plane that flies over a county's airspace- which would be an act of war.
NATO's position is that it is a defensive, not offensive alliance and unless one of their members is directly attacked they will not interfere.

Zelenskyy is desperate and also (and probably rightly) convinced that Russia will move on to ex-Soviet, now NATO members.
His responsibility is to his people. His existence, and Ukraine's, is at stake. Of course he is going to be 'reckless'.

undermilkjug · 08/03/2022 13:41

@Dogsandbabies

Countries can close their airspace. But in the specific case do you think the Russian army will observe the closure?

Ukraine is asking NATO to be involved so that they police their skies and shoot down invading aircraft with NATO missiles. Which will escalate the war beyond Ukraine.

Of course Zelensky should keep asking for help. Even if it isn't possible he has a duty to his people to keep asking.

This.

He knows it isn't really possible, but he has to keep asking. The fact that the request is awkward and embarrasing for NATO (despite good reasons for refusing) is NATO's problem not his.

Squiff70 · 08/03/2022 13:41

I agree - the consequences of closing the airspace would be utterly disastrous globally. However, Zelenskyy is desperate to protect his people and his country. He looks like he hasn't slept for weeks (he probably hasn't) and if somebody was bombing the crap out of the UK, I daresay we'd be begging for help too.

That said, NATO can't get involved. Not at the moment and not like this. Far more than Ukraine at stake here, as devastating as it is to watch and feel totally helpless.

Choppingonions · 08/03/2022 13:41

He's facing death and his country is razed to the ground. It's hardly the time for him to feel moderate. He may not expect to get it but may be applying pressure to NATO generally so they don't watch Russia use up all their weapons at Ukraine's expense.

BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation · 08/03/2022 13:42

He could very well use long range nuclear weapons against the west and sod the consequences. He's an old man and possibly terminally ill, why should he care about the consequences? He's not going to have to live with them. He doesn't care about his family, his country or the world.

nuffinimlazyatthemoment · 08/03/2022 13:43

@Lubeyboobyalt

YABU due to Putin being a cowardly bully who would absolutely not use his nukes. There is a long time understanding that using them means Armageddon. He won't want to rule over rubble and the starving. If no one stands up to him that sends the message that his pissy little threats work and Georgia and Moldova are next, and then god knows who.
If you think that he wouldn't use nukes, you've seriously underestimated him. Many, many people from those who have met him, to people who used to live in Russia think that he would and unfortunately we can't take that chance. Easy to sit at your keyboard in a 'safe' foreign country and proclaim that he wouldn't do this or that. They all said he wouldn't invade Ukraine either.
GregBrawlsInDogJail · 08/03/2022 13:45

YABU. Zelenskyy's first duty is, as it should be, to his own country, its defence and its people. He knows the obstacles very well, but that doesn't mean he should stop asking. He is doing what he needs to do, and so is NATO.

Tink626 · 08/03/2022 13:45

He knows it isn't really possible, but he has to keep asking. The fact that the request is awkward and embarrasing for NATO (despite good reasons for refusing) is NATO's problem not his.

This!!!! His country has been invaded, his people are being killed, he knows he is likely to be killed. What would you do in his situation?

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 08/03/2022 13:49

His responsibility is to his people, our government is to us. Is a no fly zone a good thing for us?

forinborin · 08/03/2022 13:49

Should he shut up just because he's telling the truth and it is uncomfortable to hear? NATO did enforce no-fly zones in places where Russian actors were against them. They did it in Syria to protect civilians from Russian/Syrian air attacks, why not Ukraine?

Loudhousefun · 08/03/2022 13:52

I completely agree with you OP, it feels a bit like emotional blackmail, I admire everything that Ukraine has done so far but it feels like he wants to drag the whole world under with him. It’s far to dangerous

sorryforswearing · 08/03/2022 13:55

Totally agree we can’t do anything to escalate the situation which is what a no fly zone would do but what is there to discuss when Russia is so intransigent and and just can’t be trusted? Genuine question.

bonfireheart · 08/03/2022 13:56

it feels like he wants to drag the whole world under with him.
That's some victim blaming on a global scale....

incognitoforthisone · 08/03/2022 13:57

Zelenskyy is a world leader whose country and people are being obliterated by an appalling, corrupt and quasi-fascist regime. If the Russians reach Kyiv he will almost certainly be murdered. His job is to ask for whatever might save Ukraine, in as vocal and persistent manner as possible, even if he knows it's unlikely to happen.

You, in contrast, are a random person sitting at a computer on a website where people argue about whether you should wear pyjamas in the day time and which type of soap is more hygienic and why their best friend has fallen out with them.

I don't think you're really in a position to be pontificating on what Zelenskyy should or shouldn't be asking for, are you? Perhaps come back when you've been the leader of a country on the brink of a genocide.

Choppingonions · 08/03/2022 13:59

*Zelenskyy is a world leader whose country and people are being obliterated by an appalling, corrupt and quasi-fascist regime. If the Russians reach Kyiv he will almost certainly be murdered. His job is to ask for whatever might save Ukraine, in as vocal and persistent manner as possible, even if he knows it's unlikely to happen.

You, in contrast, are a random person sitting at a computer on a website where people argue about whether you should wear pyjamas in the day time and which type of soap is more hygienic and why their best friend has fallen out with them.

I don't think you're really in a position to be pontificating on what Zelenskyy should or shouldn't be asking for, are you? Perhaps come back when you've been the leader of a country on the brink of a genocide.*

Love it

bonfireheart · 08/03/2022 13:59

So much privilege to say its "emotional blackmail". Have you seen the photos journalists have been posting of dead children, their bodies blown up? Zelensky is doing more for his people than any of our leaders would - he is genuinely prepared to die for his people. He can ask, ask, ask.

Toomanyradishes · 08/03/2022 14:00

He can ask for whatever the fuck he likes whilst his people are being killed and the country is being destroyed. You dont get to demand selfless martyrism from the people being invaded. Nato doesnt have to do it, but he absolutely gets to ask.

Icemast · 08/03/2022 14:00

Can't blame him for asking, it's not going to happen though.

incognitoforthisone · 08/03/2022 14:00

@Loudhousefun

I completely agree with you OP, it feels a bit like emotional blackmail, I admire everything that Ukraine has done so far but it feels like he wants to drag the whole world under with him. It’s far to dangerous
Fucking hell. 'Emotional blackmail'? He's not some annoying on-off boyfriend you're trying to persuade your mate to dump. HIS COUNTRY IS LITERALLY ON THE BRINK OF BEING WIPED OUT and you're suggesting he's being selfish?

This site is beyond parody sometimes

MoonbeamSprinkles · 08/03/2022 14:00

There’s literally no way we could enforce a no fly zone anyway.
The no fly zones in the past have been a far smaller size and only take a few jets to enforce.
This would take an entire army to monitor due to the scale.

Also it would do very little to help Ukrainians as most of the shelling is from the ground anyway.

He’s really asking us to join in the fight, which we can’t do.