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Original poster

To think Zelenskyy needs to stop demanding a no fly zone

449 replies

WilsonMilson · 08/03/2022 13:33

The war is awful, it’s heartbreaking to see what is happening in Ukraine. Zelenskyy has been exceptionally brave, but his current rhetoric that ‘until a no fly zone is put in place that every death is on NATO’ is reckless.

A no fly zone means WW3. No one wins then, the whole world burns. He needs to stop blaming us for not getting into what would undoubtedly be a nuclear war with Russia. It is a terrible situation, but implementing a no fly zone would be crazy.

OP posts:
thepiratequeen · 08/03/2022 14:58

@incognitoforthisone

Zelenskyy is a world leader whose country and people are being obliterated by an appalling, corrupt and quasi-fascist regime. If the Russians reach Kyiv he will almost certainly be murdered. His job is to ask for whatever might save Ukraine, in as vocal and persistent manner as possible, even if he knows it's unlikely to happen.

You, in contrast, are a random person sitting at a computer on a website where people argue about whether you should wear pyjamas in the day time and which type of soap is more hygienic and why their best friend has fallen out with them.

I don't think you're really in a position to be pontificating on what Zelenskyy should or shouldn't be asking for, are you? Perhaps come back when you've been the leader of a country on the brink of a genocide.

And this with spades on.
Butchyrestingface · 08/03/2022 14:58

Another one where OP's feelz are more important than actual reality. In this case, genocide. Hmm

TheUndoingProject · 08/03/2022 14:59

Well from his perspective WW3 has already happened hasn’t it. I don’t blame him for asking and I don’t blame NATO for saying no. He surely has to do everything he can to advocate for his citizens and his country. Why not try getting this annoyed with Putin?

Brefugee · 08/03/2022 15:00

Of course he is demanding a no-fly zone. He wants Russia to stop. And as long as NATO say no he'll keep demanding it.

And NATO have a perfectly good reason not to want to implement a no-fly zone so they are within their rights to say "nope, not doing it".

Ukraine was offered protection if they disarmed. They did and it is perfectly possible to see things from their pov: NATO isn't keeping their end of the bargain.

But NATO are right, imo, not to enforce a no-fly zone.

BedisBliss · 08/03/2022 15:00

@DaggerIsle

No fly zone would mean shooting down any Russian plane that flies over a county's airspace- which would be an act of war. NATO's position is that it is a defensive, not offensive alliance and unless one of their members is directly attacked they will not interfere.

Zelenskyy is desperate and also (and probably rightly) convinced that Russia will move on to ex-Soviet, now NATO members.
His responsibility is to his people. His existence, and Ukraine's, is at stake. Of course he is going to be 'reckless'.

Couldn't have said it better! Totally agree.
MillaRennt · 08/03/2022 15:00

@incognitoforthisone

Zelenskyy is a world leader whose country and people are being obliterated by an appalling, corrupt and quasi-fascist regime. If the Russians reach Kyiv he will almost certainly be murdered. His job is to ask for whatever might save Ukraine, in as vocal and persistent manner as possible, even if he knows it's unlikely to happen.

You, in contrast, are a random person sitting at a computer on a website where people argue about whether you should wear pyjamas in the day time and which type of soap is more hygienic and why their best friend has fallen out with them.

I don't think you're really in a position to be pontificating on what Zelenskyy should or shouldn't be asking for, are you? Perhaps come back when you've been the leader of a country on the brink of a genocide.

Best comment I've read on here in a long time.
TristramBrandy · 08/03/2022 15:01

It will mean WW3 and all that that entails for us and our children.

Russia will immediately fly a plane and NATO will shoot it down and then BOOM...many of us around the world, including the UK, will die and many more will suffer economic hardship on a scale rarely seen here.
As long as everyone, understanding that fact, is happy to go ahead with a No Fly zone then so be it.

The price of Ukraine joining NATO will be a high one but if the majority think it is a price worth paying then we must get on with it and accept the consequences.

Nightlystroll · 08/03/2022 15:03

Zelensky is leading a fight for life and the survival of his country. Of course he's going to demand a no fly zone and lay the responsibility for deaths at the feet of those who refuse to patrol it. Hes going to put pressure on as much as he can. All countries' leaders would do the same thing. He knows that it's not going to happen but he might get something else out if it.
In the same way, other countries are thinking of their own people and future and what's best for them.

Saku · 08/03/2022 15:04

@allFrenchBoule Who will tie the bell to the Cat..... mean while people suffer.

MoonbeamSprinkles · 08/03/2022 15:08

^ It is agonising I agree, to see the pitiful scenes and not wade in, but then the adjacent countries would also be bombed and shelled, the Ukranians would have nowhere to flee to. Far more people would be killed and the whole world would be involved.
As it is we face global unrest and famine, soaring energy prices and the wheat harvest of Ukraine lost, along with the fertiliser that other countries rely on to grow their own crops both to trade and feed their people . The whole thing is pretty disastrous, but NATO going to war with Russia will escalate the situation and end in even more deaths.^

I agree with this.
An escalation will not be good for Ukraine. Chances are the first nuke fired would be a small strategic one in Ukraine.

The war in Ukraine is already a disaster far far wider than in Ukraine already. The Middle East gets the majority of its wheat from there we’re looking at large scale famines.
And escalation will only make this worse.

We need to tred carefully. It’s not that we’re ok with it because it’s not at our door, but how are we helping Ukraine by making a larger conflict. Making their neighbouring countries rubble too?

Putin will not back down by us sabre rattling, he needs an off ramp.

TooBigForMyBoots · 08/03/2022 15:09

Very unreasonable @WilsonMilson. SMH.Hmm

kittensinthekitchen · 08/03/2022 15:10

I tend to find people are not at their most reasonable or logical when shit scared.
His country is being levelled, his people are being killed, numerous attempts on his life are being made. Chances are he will never see his loved ones again.

Wouldn't most of us beg for someone to help in those circumstances?

missmoon · 08/03/2022 15:14

YABVU for expecting him to not ask for something that would save many of his people from horrendous suffering. We are of course free to refuse, with all the resulting guilt and consequences (for instance, Russia might not stop at Ukraine, and might attack us anyway on a pretext).

It seems to me that experts are divided as to what might actually happen if NATO were to fight back, and it's not 100% certain that Russia would want to, or even be able to, launch a nuclear attack.

Sagealicious · 08/03/2022 15:16

The type of people who accuse others of being emotionally manipulative when asking for help are usually the same type of people who demand that people come to their rescue when they're in trouble.

MrsTerryPratchett · 08/03/2022 15:17

It seems to me that experts are divided as to what might actually happen if NATO were to fight back, and it's not 100% certain that Russia would want to, or even be able to, launch a nuclear attack.

No plan survives contact with the enemy. As Putin is finding out right now.

No one knows what would happen. What Zelensky knows is what is happening right now.

tkwal · 08/03/2022 15:21

I think the President has every right to keep asking . His country has been invaded. The Russians are not playing by the rules. I suppose you believe the RAF were a wee bit unreasonable in shooting down the enemy planes over the Channel, or is it only OK when it's us who are under attack? We are standing aside while the Ukranians are dying, that's not OK with me. Our leaders are treading an incredibly fine line and I'm glad the Government pushed ahead with Trident. What I really want to say is 1. If you think Ukraine is using emotional blackmail you are incredibly selfish 2. Remember the only people who have used nuclear weapons
In anger have been the allies. Drastic but it brought the war to an end

blameless · 08/03/2022 15:21

The greatest likelihood of WWIII is down to national leaders who have probably had no more than 24 hours sleep in the past fortnight.

For those who believe that treaties and agreements should be strictly followed, any guesses when the last regime-change in Ukraine took place and who orchestrated it from the White House?

Ionsion · 08/03/2022 15:23

I’m sick of all the whining about implementing a no fly zone. I don’t want a WW3 or a nuclear war thank you very much. Of course Zelensky would ask for NATO to get involved and for them to enforce a no fly zone. I honestly think if this happened then NATO would end up shooting down a Russian plane and that WW3 would ensue. China would then have no option but to get involved because they have an agreement with Russia. We will then find ourselves dragged into a war like we have never seen before. People would be forced to fight via conscription and we would never know if and when that button would be pressed. There won’t be a refugee crisis because everyone (apart from a few high powered individuals and their staff holed up in bunkers) will be dead. How is this so hard to understand??

TristramBrandy · 08/03/2022 15:25

Ukraine asked to join NATO, despite assurances being given to Russia, when the USSR broke up, that it wouldn't.

Zelensky knew this would cause war-lives lost, cities flattened and yet he did it anyway.

He may have felt justified-maybe he was- but he knew what the price would be and, on behalf of his people, he went ahead.

He is not some plaster saint whose shit doesn't stink. He may not be the Devil Incarnate either. The point is he knew what would happen and he went ahead. He thought the price was worth paying. People in Ukraine are paying.

Now we know what will happen if NATO shoots down a Russian plane-so does Zelensky. He wants us to also feel that the price is worth paying, to join him. That's fine as long as we all know the price we will pay and decide it is worth it.

I don't think that the price is worth being unable to afford to heat my home, suffer food shortages, maybe my home being turned to rubble and-worse of all-the life of my children.

But then, I am one person and must go along with the majority but I hope and pray that the majority have looked at possible disastrous consequences with a clear eye before embarking on this path.

Once that first Russian plane is shot down by Nato then the balloon will go up and life changes forever.

SpeckledlyHen · 08/03/2022 15:25

@Loudhousefun

I completely agree with you OP, it feels a bit like emotional blackmail, I admire everything that Ukraine has done so far but it feels like he wants to drag the whole world under with him. It’s far to dangerous
Cringing for you @Loudhousefun for this comment. Thank god this is an anonymous forum eh?
crispmidnightpeace · 08/03/2022 15:26

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

I don't understand why countries aren't allowed to close their own airspace? Why is it up to Nato or other countries to say so?
You're on the cusp of understanding how the world really works. Controlled by one centralised power.
SilverDoe · 08/03/2022 15:28

@DaggerIsle

No fly zone would mean shooting down any Russian plane that flies over a county's airspace- which would be an act of war. NATO's position is that it is a defensive, not offensive alliance and unless one of their members is directly attacked they will not interfere.

Zelenskyy is desperate and also (and probably rightly) convinced that Russia will move on to ex-Soviet, now NATO members.
His responsibility is to his people. His existence, and Ukraine's, is at stake. Of course he is going to be 'reckless'.

This.

I have nothing but admiration for him. Whether it's right or wrong for countries to do it is another matter, but how can you look at what is happening to his country and people and expect him to do any less.

Lubeyboobyalt · 08/03/2022 15:29

@Ionsion

I’m sick of all the whining about implementing a no fly zone. I don’t want a WW3 or a nuclear war thank you very much. Of course Zelensky would ask for NATO to get involved and for them to enforce a no fly zone. I honestly think if this happened then NATO would end up shooting down a Russian plane and that WW3 would ensue. China would then have no option but to get involved because they have an agreement with Russia. We will then find ourselves dragged into a war like we have never seen before. People would be forced to fight via conscription and we would never know if and when that button would be pressed. There won’t be a refugee crisis because everyone (apart from a few high powered individuals and their staff holed up in bunkers) will be dead. How is this so hard to understand??
I'm sick of all the children crushed in their houses under bombings from Putin's war crimes blatantly targeting civilians.
Wulfenite · 08/03/2022 15:29

incognitoforthisone whatever one thinks of OP's and others' statements, by your logic no-one would ever be allowed to have an opinion on any global events, and leaving opinions to the politicians is actually a dangerous road to go down. Of course she can have an opinion in her pyjamas, in a position of current safety, without any qualifications or experience in government. Even if that opinion is wrong.