To think Zelenskyy needs to stop demanding a no fly zone

[WilsonMilson]

The war is awful, it’s heartbreaking to see what is happening in Ukraine. Zelenskyy has been exceptionally brave, but his current rhetoric that ‘until a no fly zone is put in place that every death is on NATO’ is reckless.

A no fly zone means WW3. No one wins then, the whole world burns. He needs to stop blaming us for not getting into what would undoubtedly be a nuclear war with Russia. It is a terrible situation, but implementing a no fly zone would be crazy.

@ancientgran

We let Putin do what he wants in Ukraine at our peril. Where is next? Where will he stop?

That’s not how it works. He wont live for forever and keep invading. If he was to take Kyiv, he will be left with a war torn Ukraine with insurgent or at least resistant population as well as a a Russian economy on its knees. You can’t expand an empire on fresh air alone - as the Soviet Union found out in a humiliating fashion in the 80s.

I honestly don’t want to live in a world where we allow this to happen anyway. We are absolutely destroying our planet and watching other countries be ripped apart by wars we played a hand in. Obviously this is on Putin but our government were happy to get into bed with him for the returns.

@Suzi888

Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances

We promised to protect them. We haven’t and won’t ask it will start WW3.

He has to ask, he has to support his country.

YABVU

Indeed. Big silence on this one. We have not kept to our agreement.

But I do understand why NATO are not getting involved and it's ridiculous to think he shouldn't be asking.

Aside from supplying arms, I'm
Hoping there's some covert Western special forces activity at play helping repel the Russians.

Zelenskyy is one of the bravest, dignified men I’ve ever seen. Calling him selfish or being guilty of emotional blackmail only highlights some posters utter callousness and ignorance of the situation Ukraine is actually in.

Think, truly think about what they’re facing. Death and destruction everywhere. Innocent civilians, children gunned down in the streets with their parents. A nuclear power station hit.

Who of us wouldn’t beg the international community for help as their country was being obliterated? Use every plea or bargaining chip they could think of to save their homeland? Knowing he’s likely to die but determined to do everything he can to save as many as possible? NATO have to say no right now, but my god, of course he has to ask.

@WilsonMilson

It doesn’t mean closing own air space, he’s asking NATO to implement a no fly zone - ie we shoot down any Russian aircraft that enters the space. That is an act of aggression and would start WW3. Containment and negotiation is what is called for, not escalation.

OP is right

Most damage is being done by continued shelling & tank fire, closing air space won't help with this it will just create WW3

Zelensky has to think about his country. NATO has to think about the rest of the continent and the world, and the repercussions if a no fly zone was enforced by them.
As a PP said, it's a negotiation tactic, an attempt to keep up the pressure on NATO and a way to keep the rest of the world engaged as lots of countries have a tendency to forget about conflicts unless they seem pertinent to their survival.

@bellinisurge

He's defending his country. He can say what he likes. It's for our politicians to explain why not. They aren't in NATO. It's as uncomfortably simple as that.

Ukraine wanted to join, I feel very uncomfortable with the idea that we won't support someone just because they aren't part of our gang. Can you imagine how we'd feel if it was happening in Britain and the EU refused to help because of Brexit?

He must ask, he must do what is right for his people. I can not believe some posters can't see this.

@Toomanyradishes

He can ask for whatever the fuck he likes whilst his people are being killed and the country is being destroyed. You dont get to demand selfless martyrism from the people being invaded. Nato doesnt have to do it, but he absolutely gets to ask.

This. And the many responses with the same sentiment.

A child died from dehydration in Mariupol today, as the city (the size of Liverpool, so that you can imagine the scale) is cut off from all provisioning, including water. What would you say as a leader of the nation in this case? Emotional blackmail, ffs.

I suggest you listen to his recent (as of a few hours ago) criticism of the Red Cross too.

@MrsTerryPratchett

I don't think you're really in a position to be pontificating on what Zelenskyy should or shouldn't be asking for, are you? Perhaps come back when you've been the leader of a country on the brink of a genocide.

This. I can't believe anyone would look at Zelensky and think, "all wrong, I could do a much better job". No, you'd have buggered off to Switzerland and be crying in a cupboard somewhere.

I can’t believe he won’t just sit there quietly while Russia invade his country, bomb civilians and try to annex a sovereign state. How dare he make you feel bad by asking for international help.

Am I right in thinking if Ukraine had been part of NATO he wouldn't have invaded, but maybe then the invasion would have just happened earlier when they applied to join / were accepted? I have to confess very poor knowledge of what has happened and the timeline since the annexation of Crimea

AIBU to think...... what actually Ukraine has gained out of this? instead of fooling itself. YES if asked what Zelensky gained out of it, is obviously he became a history hero forever.

What Putin has gained? he became a history monster. I agree.

But we cant avoid So many people are dead in Ukraine, Millions and millions are getting displaced leaving all of what they earned lifetime. They have to leave their homeland where they grew up that can not be replaced by anything. If they will be asked- do they want to leave the place? NO they dont.
Reason -Zelensky(Ukraine govt.) want to join the Nato/EU because he want their country safe and People safe ...... is it ?? Now this is how their country/people became safe? ask the people- have they became safe?
War could have been avoided by talking to Russia(Lets say Monster Putin). It would have been a better position to negotiate with him then than Now. What have been gained by destroying some Russian aircraft/ tanks/ soldiers( where most of them are 20-25 year old kids who may have/ not have idea what they are doing or tricked whatever.)?
And then begging in front of whole world 'Please save us. Please save us.' If you will not save we will die. Still there is time to stop it (Yes by agreeing the 3 terms of Mr. monster Putin) because it saves lives. Is Zelensky is not being selfish. (Just talk big big words big big morals,stories.. we will do that this and all).
Whole Idea about is - IS free speech/freedom/Love.
Why the love coming from west is the only LOVE. Can't they love and live with their more close brothers(where many of them still consider them Russian) their language/gene/appearance/parent-culture have been connected in a way directly or indirectly. As every (means every) country has one or two areas within where people have rows/disputes that doesn't mean the whole country should be sacrificed.
Why cant they have peace with them as other countries handle? Why they are begging everywhere. They should stand up and negotiate like OK "you dont want us to join NATO then Give us privilege over this this this .... and so on ..... as Russia only put 3 terms, Ask other benefits (try to squeeze as much as possible) like two countries do agreements between them ........... if not.. then
Now what you are gaining? ........ Getting your people killed, whole country being destroyed, begging to everyone and posing hero...

Negotiations with Russia…really?

I hope somebody kills the bastard Putler very soon

No fly zones aren't what people think - they're usually used for peacekeeping when a conflict has been resolved, to stop things flaring up again. Because ultimately a no fly zone means any planes will be shot down by whoever has the peacekeeping role.

We're not in a place practically or strategically to start shooting down Russian planes, not least because that would be taken as a declaration of war from Russia. The public in Russia may well start turning against Putin because he's started such a stupid war, if the West does something that can be intepreted as aggressive then it turns public opinion in Putin's favour.

The best case scenario is that the invasion flops and Putin gets booted out.

@incognitoforthisone just to say what an absolutely perfect comment!! I couldn’t agree more.

Five minutes ago, half the content of the internet was about Zelenskyy and his dancing and Paddington Bear voice and how much people fancied him because he was so brave and wonderful and selfless.

Now it's all gone a bit too long for some people's liking, and he should shut up with his emotional blackmail, stop making people uncomfortable and get on with watching his country being wiped off the face of the earth.

Fucking disgraceful.

Of course he should be asking for help of any kind, including implementation of a no fly zone. Surely if we were in the same situation we would want and expect our own leaders to do the same

incognitoforthisone

Well said 👏

@BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation

He could very well use long range nuclear weapons against the west and sod the consequences. He's an old man and possibly terminally ill, why should he care about the consequences? He's not going to have to live with them. He doesn't care about his family, his country or the world.

I agree with this. He has said that there would be no point having a world without Russia. It is agonising I agree, to see the pitiful scenes and not wade in, but then the adjacent countries would also be bombed and shelled, the Ukranians would have nowhere to flee to. Far more people would be killed and the whole world would be involved. As it is we face global unrest and famine, soaring energy prices and the wheat harvest of Ukraine lost, along with the fertiliser that other countries rely on to grow their own crops both to trade and feed their people . The whole thing is pretty disastrous, but NATO going to war with Russia will escalate the situation and end in even more deaths.

@DaggerIsle

No fly zone would mean shooting down any Russian plane that flies over a county's airspace- which would be an act of war. NATO's position is that it is a defensive, not offensive alliance and unless one of their members is directly attacked they will not interfere.

Zelenskyy is desperate and also (and probably rightly) convinced that Russia will move on to ex-Soviet, now NATO members.
His responsibility is to his people. His existence, and Ukraine's, is at stake. Of course he is going to be 'reckless'.

This.

@incognitoforthisone

Zelenskyy is a world leader whose country and people are being obliterated by an appalling, corrupt and quasi-fascist regime. If the Russians reach Kyiv he will almost certainly be murdered. His job is to ask for whatever might save Ukraine, in as vocal and persistent manner as possible, even if he knows it's unlikely to happen.

You, in contrast, are a random person sitting at a computer on a website where people argue about whether you should wear pyjamas in the day time and which type of soap is more hygienic and why their best friend has fallen out with them.

I don't think you're really in a position to be pontificating on what Zelenskyy should or shouldn't be asking for, are you? Perhaps come back when you've been the leader of a country on the brink of a genocide.

Perfectly put

I don't blame the poor man for lashing out. He must be at his absolute wits end.

@Toomanyradishes

He can ask for whatever the fuck he likes whilst his people are being killed and the country is being destroyed. You dont get to demand selfless martyrism from the people being invaded. Nato doesnt have to do it, but he absolutely gets to ask.

This. And if NATO can't give him a no fly zone, they can try to give him anything else they can reasonably provide.

Anyone who thinks Putin won't drop a nuclear bomb on Ukraine if pushed far enough is deluding themselves.