To think Zelenskyy needs to stop demanding a no fly zone

[WilsonMilson]

The war is awful, it’s heartbreaking to see what is happening in Ukraine. Zelenskyy has been exceptionally brave, but his current rhetoric that ‘until a no fly zone is put in place that every death is on NATO’ is reckless.

A no fly zone means WW3. No one wins then, the whole world burns. He needs to stop blaming us for not getting into what would undoubtedly be a nuclear war with Russia. It is a terrible situation, but implementing a no fly zone would be crazy.

Yabu. He has to ask, what else can he do. I just wish Russia sorry Putin would stop this war that no one wants and stop making his troops kill people.

He is, in effect, asking for NATO countries to put their citizens at risk and throw their entire way of life onto the gambling table and hope Russia actually isn't holding the ace card of a total willingness to use nuclear weapons. That is not a risk any country should ever be prepared to take. WW3 is not something that should ever happen and the slightest possibility should be backed away from and resolved by diplomacy unless there is no other option. Zelensky is asking for a situation to be created in which there is no other option. The situation in Ukraine is awful, but it isn't the centre of the world and no country is going to author their own misfortune in order to defend them. The US and Ukrainian governments have been poking and prodding at Putin for a long time, and I get a sense of time running out for him and wanting to retaliate in a big way and have a legacy. This wasn't unexpected but the response from the world isn't what Zelensky expected. He wanted full military aid and he won't get it. Even if Russia attacks a NATO country, we won't throw everything in to defend Ukraine as well. It's not our fight.

Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances

We promised to protect them. We haven’t and won’t ask it will start WW3.

He has to ask, he has to support his country.

YABVU

Emotional blackmail.

Have you actually seen what is happening in his country?
He is trying to ensure that his country isn't totally destroyed.
There are well over one million refugees, with more being created all the time. That is with most of the men staying in the country at present.

It is horrible to watch. Not helping makes us feel uncomfortable. It should.
That doesn't necessarily mean we should impose a no fly zone. But we shouldn't be so detached from our own humanity that we blame him for seeking support for his country.

Emotional blackmail?? I can’t believe someone actually said that out loud.

For every day that other countries look on and not take harsher measures against his aggressor, Zelenskiy is COUNTING CORPSES. Every day of delay, means X number of his people dead. You want him to tone it down, though, because he’s making you feel bad?

Un fucking believable.

Zelenskyy is asking for a no-fly zone not expecting to get one but as a means to keep the pressure up on countries in the West to do what they can short of providing it. It also works on populations of countries in the West who feel that their governments aren't doing as much as they could. It's a tactic but a reasonable and understandable one.

YABU. Zelenskyy's Job is to protect Ukraine. It is not emotional blackmail, embarrassing or rude of him to repeatedly try anything and everything to get help for his country. I understand why NATO are not conceding, but I thank my lucky stars that I am not Ukrainian and that I am safely situated in the UK. If I was in the same position as I am now, with only the bad luck to be Ukrainian, I certainly would want him to ask for a no fly zone too.

If there was a photograph next to the definition of bravery and dignity it would certainly be one of Zelenskyy. All we can do it watch and support those fleeing. I'm guessing some sort of international arrest warrant will be issued against Putin?

Obviously he knows that a No Fly Zone is out of the question. He’s repeatedly asking as it’s a negotiation tactic.

I think NATO should get more involved to be honest. Yeah it's not a member of NATO, but realistically this is likely to end in WW3 anyway, Putin has gone nuts and will likely eventually strike a NATO country. Why are their lives worth more than the residents of Ukraine? NATO is going to be getting involved eventually, after Russia over steps. Might as well try and prevent that before it happens.

I don't blame him though for wanting help. Imagine it as your entire family and friends being attacked by another big group, with no one helping and you're stood there watching them be picked off one by one, killed for no reason. How would you react, do nothing or beg for help?

So OP if a load of trained killers turned up in your town after deciding they wanted it for themselves, armed with guns and bombs and started murdering your neighbours and their children in front of you, razing their homes and businesses to the ground, shooting them as they tried to leave, with you knowing you and your children could die any moment, would you not be screaming for someone to help then?

we must do more for Ukraine. I feel ill watching people being blown up and killed by a bully and a liar.
Johnson is a big fat coward.........as well as a liar. He is trying to not offend his Russian chums. Can we post him to Ukraine ?
Putin will not stop here. More countries will be invaded. More people killed.
Its not like we will all be allies after this is it? We can't go backwards to the old "normal" with Russia.

Putin wants to rebuild the old Soviet Union. That's his aim and that's what he will do. Until we stop him. We will have to stand up to Russia sooner or later.

Unless those around Putin take him out for making a mess of Ukraine.

And for F**S Sake of course asking for help is what Zelensky should be doing. He's pointing out that we're kidding ourselves if we think this won't escalate.

@incognitoforthisone

Zelenskyy is a world leader whose country and people are being obliterated by an appalling, corrupt and quasi-fascist regime. If the Russians reach Kyiv he will almost certainly be murdered. His job is to ask for whatever might save Ukraine, in as vocal and persistent manner as possible, even if he knows it's unlikely to happen.

You, in contrast, are a random person sitting at a computer on a website where people argue about whether you should wear pyjamas in the day time and which type of soap is more hygienic and why their best friend has fallen out with them.

I don't think you're really in a position to be pontificating on what Zelenskyy should or shouldn't be asking for, are you? Perhaps come back when you've been the leader of a country on the brink of a genocide.

This

I don't think you're really in a position to be pontificating on what Zelenskyy should or shouldn't be asking for, are you? Perhaps come back when you've been the leader of a country on the brink of a genocide.

This. I can't believe anyone would look at Zelensky and think, "all wrong, I could do a much better job". No, you'd have buggered off to Switzerland and be crying in a cupboard somewhere.

The issue with Putin is that nobody dare calls his bluff because he's got nukes. He knows that.

It also means taking out ground assets as I understand it. So it sounds quite negative language but is actually a positive action.

I don't blame him for calling for it, to keep up pressure, at the same time as knowing it won't happen. It's a negotiation/ pressuring tactic. No good solutions / answers. It's a wicked problem.

And I'm with @incognitoforthisone I think everyone thought that Zelenskyy was a lightweight, a comedy actor who became president because he had novelty value.

Well, that much may be true. But the guy has got balls of steel. He has stepped up and is serving his country incredibly well.

So stop whingeing from the safety of your computer and go and donate to the DEC appeal. It's all we can do www.dec.org.uk/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIztbLy9229gIVCbrtCh1KOw6VEAAYASAAEgIRyfD_BwE

I hardly think a mumsnet keyboard warrior is under the same pressures as Zelensky. Cut him some slack. Emotional blackmail-what rubbish-he’s not some cocklodger gambling away the housekeeping and begging for another chance. He’s a man trying to save his country from being pulverised by a next door neighbour who’s a mass murderer. Jesus.

We don’t want to get involved because we don’t want our lives to be at risk. We want to keep the situation as it is - just their lives at risk.

He's defending his country. He can say what he likes. It's for our politicians to explain why not.
They aren't in NATO. It's as uncomfortably simple as that.

We let Putin do what he wants in Ukraine at our peril. Where is next? Where will he stop?

*Zelenskyy is a world leader whose country and people are being obliterated by an appalling, corrupt and quasi-fascist regime. If the Russians reach Kyiv he will almost certainly be murdered. His job is to ask for whatever might save Ukraine, in as vocal and persistent manner as possible, even if he knows it's unlikely to happen.

You, in contrast, are a random person sitting at a computer on a website where people argue about whether you should wear pyjamas in the day time and which type of soap is more hygienic and why their best friend has fallen out with them.

I don't think you're really in a position to be pontificating on what Zelenskyy should or shouldn't be asking for, are you? Perhaps come back when you've been the leader of a country on the brink of a genocide.*

Love this so much

The occupation of Ukraine would be equally disastrous, not only would Putin have control of significant oil and gas reserves he'd control major production facilities for fertiliser, metal smelting plants, huge agricultural plains that supply huge amounts of high grade wheat used in bread production.
This would me he would have a greater grip on Europe.
The buffer zone between Russia and NATO would also vanish.
He cannot go unpunished and we can't run scared.