To send my eldest to grammar school knowing it’ll be a squeeze?

[Troisfoisfilles]

So my eldest just won a place at a really good grammar school in our area to start year 7 in September which is great.
She did so well in the entrance exam and interview that she was offered a scholarship and we have been awarded a brilliant bursary. Only trouble is, the bursary doesn’t cover everything and even the transport and uniform are a huge expense! It’s going to be a massive squeeze on finances. I also have two younger children who will no doubt miss out on little treats and things that I won’t be able to afford any longer 😞.
She is very intelligent and would do well at any school but I know for a fact that she won’t achieve full potential at a state school.
I originally applied for a place for her at the school I teach at. It’s a great school and she would do ok there but I don’t want just ok for her. For a start, she’s really quite eccentric and mature for her age. Kids similar to this at my school don’t really go down that well and are singled out by the others - kids are horrid!
I really believe she needs the small classes, discipline and pushiness she’d get at a grammar.
So am I being unreasonable in sending her?

I know for a fact that she won’t achieve full potential at a state school.

You know nothing of the sort.

Please tell me how you know otherwise?
While I fully admit that it was very silly and naive of me to make such a sweeping statement, I now fully believe I was mostly justified. What I should have said is ‘I know for a fact she won’t achieve full potential at a state school in our area’.
Ive worked at 3 out of the 4 local state schools (within 25 minutes drive) and spent time (more than just a visit) in a professional capacity in at least 5 more in the wider area (up to 1 hour away).
I can categorically state that I’m pretty sure she would NOT have achieved what she has so far in one of these schools. Not their fault or the teachers/pastoral/clerical staff that work there but they just physically cannot cope with what they have.
I still remember those awful days of having to stick 4 kids on a two person desk because my classroom only fit 32 students and a lot of classes were 35+!
I also remember the days of finding the heads of years and other pastoral staff locked in the toilets, trying to hide from hoards of students desperately attempting to get mental health support and they’d just reached breaking point, desperate to help but so empty and unable to do anymore for them. The turnover was horrific. My form group had 4 different heads of years in the GCSE year.
And that’s not even scratching the surface. It’s horrific and I’ve seen far far too many bright, desperate to learn and eager to please year 7’s, become disillusioned, ‘what’s the point’ attitude year 9’s+ who end up getting nowhere near the grades they should have!

So yes, I do think I sort of know

What I should have said is ‘I know for a fact she won’t achieve full potential at a state school in our area’.

Yeh, so @bridgetreilly was correct... you've literally just changed what you said 😅

Never noticed this was years ago why do people post updates years later 🤔

Ummmm… nope. Not changed. Added a bit too it to fall in line with what I would have meant to put in the first place.
I’m pretty sure @bridgetreilly must have know this was implied, although it’s a random statement to make either way imo 🤷‍♀️

@Fedupmumofadultsons Probably because a decision with long term impact needs a while to see how it works out.

@Troisfoisfilles I have two very bright DCs and one definitely middling. Now, with hindsight, I can see that the one who would have benefited most from a private school atmosphere is the middling child.

He wouldn't have benefited from an academic hot house but he would have benefited from a more nurturing environment. Not being academic but being well behaved, his school failed to see him. 'He's very quiet' was the standard report. He left with a very small handful of certificates.

The two academic DCs did very well at GCSEs, both were hard workers and self starters. They would have both benefited from a more academic and focused sixth form. DC3 in particular would have benefited from better university application guidance.

This is the problem with hindsight. There is no opportunity to go back and make different decisions.

I wouldn't have made the decision @Troisfoisfilles made but I am glad for her that it is working out.

Nope. My point was that it’s impossible to know. I didn’t claim to know otherwise. I just don’t think you could know ‘for a fact’ either.

"She is very intelligent and would do well at any school but I know for a fact that she won’t achieve full potential at a state school."

Do you think any children reach their 'full potential' at state school?

"I really believe she needs the small classes, discipline and pushiness she’d get at a grammar."

Why do you believe that the only children who need and deserve 'pushing', 'small classes' and 'discipline' to meet their full potential are children who are clever and who learn easily?

Don't children who find learning more challenging need more teacher attention, less disruption and more encouragement?

BTW - this reads as 'my child is too clever for state school'. Really be mindful of what you say to other parents.

I've just seen your updates OP and I'm really glad things have worked out for your DDs. Best of luck

Yes I can see how this would be perceived as ‘too clever for state school’ but it’s really not me at that way. What I really mean is, she’s too different for state school. i never want my kids to feel they have to change their personalities or be too nervous to do well at school for fear of being bullied. And I don’t want them to be held back, so that others can keep up with the work. Neither would I want one of my children to be pushed unnecessarily to work at a level too difficult for them. It works both ways. I’ve worked in many a class where the work was far too hard for some and far far too easy for others and subsequently, an hour lesson was spent concentrating on only 2-3 out of 35 children a small part of what was intended. The rest of class would have picked it up right away and sat there bored for 30 minutes! It just doesn’t work. It’s not fair on the brightest or on the least brightest. What’s so wrong about not wanting that for my children?

In other words, "my child is too unique and clever for state school, where she'd have problems learning alongside 'run of the mill' children who aren't as clever or as unique as she is."

As for your points about mixed ability schools - the evidence from educational research doesn't show that academic selection at 11 has a massive impact on academic attainment. A study from Bristol points to 'slightly higher' attainment for pupils at academically selective state schools than similar pupils at comprehensives. How relevant this would be to your child given they have a teacher as a parent and are more likely to do well anyway.

@Sabire9 I would tend to agree that the DCs who would probably benefit most from small classes, less disruption etc that a private school can provide are the less academic, underachieving DCs.

Unfortunately, they don't get scholarships/bursaries. Their parents have to pay full fees. The scholarships/bursaries are offered to bright but poor DCs so that the school gets some academic 'gloss'.

The less academically able (but wealthy) DCs do benefit from private school. Possibly achieving better exam grades than they would have at a state school. This, combined with wealth, opens doors for them which would otherwise have remained closed.

In my work I have come across a lot of this type. Very pleasant, excellent manners but absolutely no cogs whirring.

Put it a different way then: She will have far better opportunities and is far more likely to achieve her full potential at a grammar school than if she goes to a state school. The reduced class sizes alone will be beneficial.

If your child likes the "grammar" school (that's actually a private school), and would be happier there than at the state school then send her there. If you don't you'll always wonder whether she would have had a better time. And if she wants to go and you don't allow her to do so, even though she's done well enough to get a scholarship, you risk a situation of resentment. Frankly it was a bit naughty of you to allow her to take the scholarship exam if you weren't sure you could afford the school or not: you set up her expectation that if she worked hard and did well in the exam that she would be allowed to go to that school - and if that simply wasn't the case it wasn't fair to put her through all that extra stress.

Private school is fantastic and can be the making of children. Not just in terms of classes and teaching but in terms of opportunities and connections the children can make for the future. I volunteered at a local state school (11-16 years old) during the pandemic, and for a period afterwards, and was utterly shocked by the atrocious learning environments I saw there. Other than the top set maths classes the rest were abysmal. I am astounded that any children do well in a situation like that where the classes are too big, the children who cause trouble get to do so with little intervention, and the teachers appear to be in a constant state of annoyance and boredom. If you can send your children to private school then please do so - you'll be doing them a massive favour. There's no way I would send children to state school based on my experience of witnessing what goes on in the classes at the local one (and it's purportedly one that gets decent rankings - which is even more shocking to think that there are far worse ones out there!!!)

Definitely send her. Circumstances change and fast, and not sending her would be turning down a once in a lifetime opportunity. You have a good number of years to work up savings for the education of the others.
And most state schools, like you point out, are completely geared towards dragging struggling students over the pass mark. They can be soul-destroying for anyone serious about studying.

Title very misleading. Your kids go to private school with a bursary.
Not grammar school.

You are several years too late…