To send my eldest to grammar school knowing it’ll be a squeeze?

[Troisfoisfilles]

So my eldest just won a place at a really good grammar school in our area to start year 7 in September which is great.
She did so well in the entrance exam and interview that she was offered a scholarship and we have been awarded a brilliant bursary. Only trouble is, the bursary doesn’t cover everything and even the transport and uniform are a huge expense! It’s going to be a massive squeeze on finances. I also have two younger children who will no doubt miss out on little treats and things that I won’t be able to afford any longer 😞.
She is very intelligent and would do well at any school but I know for a fact that she won’t achieve full potential at a state school.
I originally applied for a place for her at the school I teach at. It’s a great school and she would do ok there but I don’t want just ok for her. For a start, she’s really quite eccentric and mature for her age. Kids similar to this at my school don’t really go down that well and are singled out by the others - kids are horrid!
I really believe she needs the small classes, discipline and pushiness she’d get at a grammar.
So am I being unreasonable in sending her?

[quote Landedonfeet]@Hoppinggreen
What’s the fees?[/quote]
Around £3500 per term

I would not do private school unless I knew that I could comfortably afford it for all children. Siblings can get touchy about fairness and I would not want to risk damaging the sibling relationship - though perhaps some effect on it is inevitable (as your dd1 may also feel resentful that she cannot go).

I think you can get a lot of ‘push’ from home. I’m an immigrant and this happens with us. Your daughter has done well so far - what is to stop her going on to achieve? It will be harder than in the small class sizes of private school, but you could supplement with tutors etc and being involved with what she is learning.

And you think teachers could afford
£21k (after tax!) a year?

My best friend and I attended a school entrenched with poverty and cruel kids.
She went to Cambridge.

If your child goes to this school she won't be able to attend the holidays will she?
When other kids go into school with £800 coats, will she cope?
Idk, I think if she's intelligent enough she'll succeed anywhere tbh OP

@Landedonfeet

Yes But same applies re lunches, day trips etc

Surely the fees are just higher, if they include these things though? And taking a packed lunch from home is not that expensive.

Have you thought about how you will afford the cost of trips etc? Even with a discount for PP you're still talking a lot of money.

My experience of private schools is that the 'extras' aren't actually that much different to a local state schools.

Trips are still optional and in our experience by now means does everyone go on them all, especially things like ski trips which are in school holidays. Dd didn't have any more expensive school trips than friends at state schools nearby - Infact one of her abroad trips til place WITH two local state schools as it ensured they had the right numbers, all paid the same.

Smaller trips often came out of the fees, along with costs for extra such as materials for certain DT lessons or swim sessions etc. Lunches cost no more than the canteen at the local state school.

Uniform was dearer but there was a fully stocked and very good second hand shop which everyone used - there was no 'shame' in being seen to use it as even the most well off families did.

Check what the fees include and ask for a rough estimate of any extras. Most schools will be happy to tell you this and, in our experience, it's often easier to find out from a private school than a state school.

@MadameGazelleBand

How can you work in a school and get the Grammar part wrong? You mean a private school yes?

There are several private schools which have the word Grammar in its name.

@Abraxan the point is that anyone working in education should know that the standard meaning of “grammar school” is “academically selective, free state school”. The school OP is referring to may well have “grammar” in its name but her dilemma is all about how to afford the fees. Therefore, when posting here, she needed to explain in clear terms that the school was a “grammar” in name only, but that fees were payable.

Let me explain this for you.

My dog is called Kitty. If I post on here and say “Can anyone advise me the best food to feed my pet Kitty?” I am going to get 100 recommendations for cat food because people automatically go with the standard meaning unless told otherwise, and I should know that it has to be explained.

OP could be excused from not knowing that the default meaning of “grammar” means a state school if she had had no professional involvement in educational after all, grammars are not in all counties now and her local independent school is called X Grammar- but as a teacher you’d have to be living under a rock not to know this!

@RedskyThisNight

Pretty much all private schools include lunches as part of the fee
And ones around here - differing fee levels - all include after school clubs and care for free
And none charge for day trips

Point is - I have found very little “extras”

And all uniform is second hand
But it’s handbags at dawn when the second hand shop is replenished

@CherieBabySpliffUp

Have you thought about how you will afford the cost of trips etc? Even with a discount for PP you're still talking a lot of money.

The say trips all included They even provide a packed lunch

The big abroad trip 1 trip in year 7 to France.
You’re told about it in year 5!
£265 for 3 nights all In

As I say
I’ve had both at state and primary
I constantly found the state asking for money
Money for this trip
weekly money for school lunch
Donations to this charity
£2 to where home clothes
Bring in cakes for this sale

Et
Absolute none of the above at the prep school.

[quote Landedonfeet]@RedskyThisNight

Pretty much all private schools include lunches as part of the fee
And ones around here - differing fee levels - all include after school clubs and care for free
And none charge for day trips

Point is - I have found very little “extras”

And all uniform is second hand
But it’s handbags at dawn when the second hand shop is replenished[/quote]
But OP mentions having to pay for trips and lunches so presumably her private school doesn't include these things as part of the fee. So it's really irrelevant what your school does or even if the majority of other schools do this.
My DC's state school also includes clubs for free if we're comparing. And that's genuinely free, not just "part of fees".
And secondary school children don't normally need "care".

But does she m know this or has she presumed as so many do

The extras are significant in my opinion, as are the school trips.
Plus I wouldn’t say that there are many normal families and those whose grandparents pay also got a house from them too.
The are expensive parties and dinners and expensive days out. Ski trips and holidays in glamorous locations.
It’s fine if your child can deal with it but this all started in year 4/5 (noticing the differences in cash) and I can only assume that it gets worse over time.

It is for the full 7 years. They do a review each year just to make sure but as long as nothing changes dramatically, the funding will remain

Maybe I'm missing something but if your salary goes up like you are banking on happening, your fees will also surely go up each year. So that won't help really. Will you be allowing your other children sit the exam and willing/able to pay if they both do not get so much bursary?

But OP mentions having to pay for trips and lunches so presumably her private school doesn't include these things as part of the fee.

I doubt OP knows exactly as her DD hasn’t started there yet.

I can’t see where she mentions lunches, but she does mention trips.

Ime lunch and school trips that are part of the course are covered by the fees. It’s only optional extras like ski trips that are not.

@TatianaBis

But OP mentions having to pay for trips and lunches so presumably her private school doesn't include these things as part of the fee.

I doubt OP knows exactly as her DD hasn’t started there yet.

I can’t see where she mentions lunches, but she does mention trips.

Ime lunch and school trips that are part of the course are covered by the fees. It’s only optional extras like ski trips that are not.

No I didn’t mention either of things but to my knowledge, neither are included. But then they are not included for the school I work at either. Lunches at the private school are exactly the same as the ones at mine and the school trips at my school are certainly not cheap, so can’t see much difference. The french trip I will be running at my school will cost parents about £450 for a 4 day trip. My DD1 is aware that if I can’t afford a school trip, she won’t be able to do. She knows this and understands why and doesn’t have a problem with it. It has happened in the past at primary school where one or more of them couldn’t do a trip because things were tight.

[quote HaveringWavering]@Abraxan the point is that anyone working in education should know that the standard meaning of “grammar school” is “academically selective, free state school”. The school OP is referring to may well have “grammar” in its name but her dilemma is all about how to afford the fees. Therefore, when posting here, she needed to explain in clear terms that the school was a “grammar” in name only, but that fees were payable.

Let me explain this for you.

My dog is called Kitty. If I post on here and say “Can anyone advise me the best food to feed my pet Kitty?” I am going to get 100 recommendations for cat food because people automatically go with the standard meaning unless told otherwise, and I should know that it has to be explained.

OP could be excused from not knowing that the default meaning of “grammar” means a state school if she had had no professional involvement in educational after all, grammars are not in all counties now and her local independent school is called X Grammar- but as a teacher you’d have to be living under a rock not to know this![/quote]
Wow. Thanks for taking the whole point of the post and turning into something which means you can be both offensive and unkind. That’s a great skill to have

You know your daughter, if you think she will flourish at this school then absolutely send her. Not all bright children flourish in less academic environments. Some will do well anywhere, but others will sink.

I’m sure OP will find the best schools for her other children when the time comes, but I don’t think it’s fair that her eldest daughter should miss out in the name of ‘fairness’. For all the talk of the younger siblings resenting her, is it not equally likely that she could resent them for, as she may see it, holding her back? It cuts both ways. Equity is preferable to equality.

You mentioned trips @ Fri 04-Mar-22 15:28:12 🤓

Aiui lunches at state schools are paid for by parents unless you qualify for free school meals.

When you say lunches at the private school are ‘exactly the same’ do you mean price or content?

My kids’ school meals are covered by the fees although they are accounted separately so you can see the price. The trips that are not covered by the fees are optional.

No, I’m pretty sure lunches are not included. But it’s £3.10 for a main meal, drink and dessert - exactly the same price as at my school. Not expensive. The food looks really lovely and definitely have a bigger selection than mine.
The trips are probably going to be out of reach, but then they almost certainly would if she went to my school too 🤷‍♀️

From someone who ended up a total underachiever due to bad secondary school choice by my parents, please send her to the grammar and let her fly. Reach her potential.

Not all bright children flourish in less academic environments. Some will do well anywhere, but others will sink.
^

This. And remember peer pressure is a powerful thing for a teen.

@dipdye

Not all bright children flourish in less academic environments. Some will do well anywhere, but others will sink. ^

This. And remember peer pressure is a powerful thing for a teen.

Agree. At 11 my parents gave me the choice of money spent on education and less for holidays etc (we only ever camped), or the possibility of holidays like my then friends. I chose education and never regretted it - being in a selective school with a higher proportion of people who actually enjoyed academic work was right for me. It was absolutely wrong for another friend, who couldn't cope with being in the middle of the class not the top. Only you and your daughter will know what suits her, but our family relationships were not changed by the fact my brother went to the local comp (the boys' one was better than the girls' which didn't really believe girls should do science).