To send my eldest to grammar school knowing it’ll be a squeeze?

[Troisfoisfilles]

So my eldest just won a place at a really good grammar school in our area to start year 7 in September which is great.
She did so well in the entrance exam and interview that she was offered a scholarship and we have been awarded a brilliant bursary. Only trouble is, the bursary doesn’t cover everything and even the transport and uniform are a huge expense! It’s going to be a massive squeeze on finances. I also have two younger children who will no doubt miss out on little treats and things that I won’t be able to afford any longer 😞.
She is very intelligent and would do well at any school but I know for a fact that she won’t achieve full potential at a state school.
I originally applied for a place for her at the school I teach at. It’s a great school and she would do ok there but I don’t want just ok for her. For a start, she’s really quite eccentric and mature for her age. Kids similar to this at my school don’t really go down that well and are singled out by the others - kids are horrid!
I really believe she needs the small classes, discipline and pushiness she’d get at a grammar.
So am I being unreasonable in sending her?

[quote HaveringWavering]@Abraxan the point is that anyone working in education should know that the standard meaning of “grammar school” is “academically selective, free state school”. The school OP is referring to may well have “grammar” in its name but her dilemma is all about how to afford the fees. Therefore, when posting here, she needed to explain in clear terms that the school was a “grammar” in name only, but that fees were payable.

Let me explain this for you.

My dog is called Kitty. If I post on here and say “Can anyone advise me the best food to feed my pet Kitty?” I am going to get 100 recommendations for cat food because people automatically go with the standard meaning unless told otherwise, and I should know that it has to be explained.

OP could be excused from not knowing that the default meaning of “grammar” means a state school if she had had no professional involvement in educational after all, grammars are not in all counties now and her local independent school is called X Grammar- but as a teacher you’d have to be living under a rock not to know this![/quote]

I also work in education and have done for 25+ years, plus used private education for DD's primary and secondary education.

Many areas throughout England do not have grammar schools. The only 'grammar' schools in some areas are private ones which use the grammar school title in its name.

Like many private schools use the title High school units name. Locally people will refer to those schools as 'the grammar school or 'the high school' in my experience (from being in a non grammar area) so I can totally see why the OP may well have dine this - something which they then clarified in one of their later posts, for those not used to seeing non state selective using the title.

You can try and make it a bigger deal and use it to try and trip the OP up if you really want, but tbh it says more about you as a person than it does the Op. 🤷‍♀️

@Southbucksldn

The extras are significant in my opinion, as are the school trips. Plus I wouldn’t say that there are many normal families and those whose grandparents pay also got a house from them too. The are expensive parties and dinners and expensive days out. Ski trips and holidays in glamorous locations. It’s fine if your child can deal with it but this all started in year 4/5 (noticing the differences in cash) and I can only assume that it gets worse over time.

This will be very location and specific school dependant. DD's private schools were not like this at all.

Parties were exactly the same sort as those of DD's friends in state schools.
Trips were of the same ilk, with the more local or shorter ones being included within fees. It was only the residential type ones we paid for and they were the same price as local state schools.

I'm sure there are some private schools like that but my experience definitely wasn't.

@Troisfoisfilles

No, I’m pretty sure lunches are not included. But it’s £3.10 for a main meal, drink and dessert - exactly the same price as at my school. Not expensive. The food looks really lovely and definitely have a bigger selection than mine. The trips are probably going to be out of reach, but then they almost certainly would if she went to my school too 🤷‍♀️

If your finances are so tight that your children have missed out on trips in primary and would be likely to miss out on trips in state secondary too, where is the money for your share of the fees coming from? Even if it’s just 10% after scholarship and bursary that’s still likely to be around £1500 per year (and rising every year, compound too) It sounds like there’s no wiggle room at all in your budget. I’d be asking myself if this is sustainable, and ideally going through my finances with someone who could offer some unbiased advice. What happens if your old car/phone/washing machine/boiler breaks and needs replacing?

@Abraxan
Like many private schools use the title High school units name. Locally people will refer to those schools as 'the grammar school or 'the high school' in my experience (from being in a non grammar area) so I can totally see why the OP may well have dine this - something which they then clarified in one of their later posts, for those not used to seeing non state selective using the title.

That's really odd. Having spent my career working in independent schools, including one named something 'High School' and one named something 'Grammar School' (in fact, my husband works in a different something 'Grammar School' at the moment), I have literally never come across this, and would find it really odd if someone started saying 'the High School' or 'the Grammar School'. People use the actual school names. So I can fully understand why many people were confused by the OP - including myself (and I have written a doctoral thesis on grammar and independent schools!).

@Abraxan the point is that anyone working in education should know that the standard meaning of “grammar school” is “academically selective, free state school”. The school OP is referring to may well have “grammar” in its name but her dilemma is all about how to afford the fees. Therefore, when posting here, she needed to explain in clear terms that the school was a “grammar” in name only, but that fees were payable.
Yes, exactly this. However, the OP did eventually clarify that she actually meant an independent school rather than a grammar school.

You're clearly very proud of your DD and well done to her! She's obviously very bright, doing so well without tutoring. I think you'll regret not letting her go. You've said you have good prospects and you have the skills to do private work so go for it. Your DD will be forever grateful.

I would prioritise sending DD to this school if you possibly can. It sounds like a brilliant opportunity and it doesn’t sound like you’re saying you’ll be on the breadline if you do.

And the people claiming to be confused about OP’s use of ‘grammar school’ - the entire premise of the post is about whether she can afford the fees, so surely it was pretty obvious it’s a fee-paying school, presumably with ‘grammar’ in its name, not sure OP needed to be berated quite so much for this, a tiny bit of common sense or a polite clarifying question would do!!

There are independent grammar schools.

What happens if your old car/phone/washing machine/boiler breaks and needs replacing?

Exactly this. OP's finances are finely balanced. Without private school fees/extras absorbing any modest surplus small financial bumps in the road could be handled. With school fees/extras, which at my local private school have to be paid on the dot for bursary students (it is specifically mentioned in bursary t&cs), the risk of upsetting the balance is huge.

OP has obviously already decided she will send her daughter to private school! Which isn't good or bad - it's her family's decision, but always slightly irritating when people post with a question they have already answered for themselves.

@Bromse

There are independent grammar schools.

Those are called private schools and are not grammar schools which are state funded.

@Howshouldibehave but some have 'grammar' in the title and are members of the HMC which means these private schools are actually public schools.... illustrating both the confusion on this thread and the absurdities of our language Examples are Manchester Grammar and Portsmouth Grammar.

@fishonabicycle

OP has obviously already decided she will send her daughter to private school! Which isn't good or bad - it's her family's decision, but always slightly irritating when people post with a question they have already answered for themselves.

Yes I have decided. It wasn’t a question of whether I should or not- it’s a question about whether I’ve been unreasonable. And tbh, I hadn’t actually sent the admission form back when making the original post. If everyone on here had voted YABU, I may have actually really had to think about it first. The fact that most voted YANBU, has made me think that I have made the correct decision (obviously along with all family, friends and colleagues from school advice)

@drivelpants @Howshouldibehave but some have 'grammar' in the title and are members of the HMC which means these private schools are actually public schools.... illustrating both the confusion on this thread and the absurdities of our language confused Examples are Manchester Grammar and Portsmouth Grammar.

Maybe I missed this when writing my thesis about them, but can you please explain to me why you think 'grammar' needs to be in the definition of 'public school' (if that is, indeed, what you were suggesting)?

@surreygirl1987 no I wasn't suggesting that

I'm simply musing that that Manchester Grammar School and Porstmouth Grammar School are not grammar schools despite their titles and they are private schools that are also public schools.

I know in Manchester it all causes a huge amount of confusion for newcomers as you have Manchester Grammar (independent/private/public) but also several state grammars. Then in Birmingham you have several King Edward schools, some are grammars without grammar in the title, some are grammars with grammar in the title, some are independent/private/public, and some are comprehensives

In the case of Manchester Grammar it used to be a state grammar school with a very high reputation so they hung onto the name after becoming independent because it was so well known.

My son went to an 'independent grammar school', his dad had gone there when it was a state grammar. They dropped the 'grammar' from the title after a while and it just became '....School'.

In the past many independent schools had grammar school places, which we called 'free' places. I went to a GPDST (now GDST), school on a free place, along with many others. It was referred to as a grammar school. That stopped quite a while back; then there were 'assisted' places but they have also ended. Now it's just fee paying with some scholarships and bursaries for pupils who qualify.

Where I grew up ‘the grammar’ was the private school down the road.
Confused me when I chatted to a girl from Lincolnshire talking about her grammar school. I thought all grammars were fee paying.
I still wouldn’t assume ‘grammars’ were non fee paying. It’s only on mumsnet where they normally are as so many of you are from down south

@Landedonfeet

As I say I’ve had both at state and primary I constantly found the state asking for money Money for this trip weekly money for school lunch Donations to this charity £2 to where home clothes Bring in cakes for this sale

Et
Absolute none of the above at the prep school.

No shit Sherlock. State schools run on the smell of an oily rag.

update***

I did send her. She’s has now been at the school for a year, finishing today.
I can honestly say it was the best decision I’ve ever made. Not only has she done fantastically (averaged 85% in her end of year exams) but more importantly, she‘s so happy and settled- way more than she ever was at primary school. She loves the small classes and the fact that everyone is trying to do well, without fear of being picked on.
We haven’t struggled financially as much as I was worried. A lot of family members chipped in for various bits and pieces and I found a facebook second hand uniform page.
I’m so happy she pushed me into letting her go. She definitely needed it and I’m glad that for now at least, we can facilitate it.
i will try my best to keep her there and when the time comes, if appropriate, I will try to send the other two.

This thread has popped up and got on my nerves all over again lol.

There is no such thing as a fee-paying grammar school, the entire point of a grammar school is that it is free for all and the only barrier to entry is ability.

That is the entire concept of a grammar school.

OP, glad to hear things worked out well – that is awesome that she’s enjoying it. Thanks for updating.

@Chimchiminie
Apologies for this getting on your nerves again!
As stated originally, it is an independent school which just happens to have ‘grammar’ in its name.
It is a fee paying school which, luckily for my daughter, has a fantastic bursary system in place, allowing her the opportunities she is getting now

@Chimchiminie You are wrong. Grammar schools you have to pay fees for in England:

Bradford Grammar School
Bristol Grammar School
Bury Grammar School
Derby Grammar School
Dixie Grammar School
Hipperholme Grammar School
Hudderfield Grammar School
Hulme Grammar School
Kingston Grammar School
Kirkham Grammar School
Leeds Grammar School
Leicester Grammar School
Lewes Old Grammar School
Loughborough Grammar School
Manchester Grammar School
North Cestrian Grammar School
North London Grammar School
Pardes House Grammar School
Portsmouth Grammar School
Queen Elizabeth Grammar School
Reigate Grammar School
Royal Grammar School, Guildford
Royal Grammar School, Newcastle upon Tyne
Royal Grammar School, Worcester
St Anne’s College Grammar School
St Dominic’s Grammar School
Stafford Grammar School
Stockport Grammar School
Thetford Grammar School
Wisbech Grammar School
Wolverhamptom Grammar School