To not understand what's wrong with the word "No"?

[MoltenLasagne]

Last week I was mum-shamed at a baby class for using the word "no". Basically my baby went to snatch off another child and I said "no" and distracted him with something else. Another mother in the group then said she didn't believe in using the word no and looked at me like I'd just handed my baby a tin of coke and a bag of chips.

Sadly my only response to that was "oh" and I've been brewing on it ever since. I can't decide if I'm pissed off or bemused, but mostly I don't understand what on earth is wrong with the word "no" and I'm clearly massively behind on some parenting insights.

Anyway I'm going back to the class tomorrow and this woman is blatantly going to be there so I'd like to understand exactly what I'm missing!
Is there something wrong with the word no?
YABU - I don't use the word no with my kids because (and please explain!)
YANBU - this woman is inventing stuff, it's a totally normal word and you don't need to feel like a dreadful mother.

When can you start saying no ? At what age ?
As soon as needed. I rembeber the kids being very tiny in my arms and grabbing my hair. Clearly not naughty but I don’t want to encourage it so I would say ‘ no, don’t do that to my hair’ and gently unclench their fingers. It was an ( in my opinion)appropriate and propionate response.. Of course they don’t understand but it is repetition of saying , ‘no don’t do that’ in a way that they learn that no means they can’t do something.

No is not a bad word.
Saying no teaches boundaries, limits, what is ok to do ,what it’s allowed etc. it’s not a dirty word.

@notacooldad

When can you start saying no ? At what age ? As soon as needed. I rembeber the kids being very tiny in my arms and grabbing my hair. Clearly not naughty but I don’t want to encourage it so I would say ‘ no, don’t do that to my hair’ and gently unclench their fingers. It was an ( in my opinion)appropriate and propionate response.. Of course they don’t understand but it is repetition of saying , ‘no don’t do that’ in a way that they learn that no means they can’t do something.

No is not a bad word.
Saying no teaches boundaries, limits, what is ok to do ,what it’s allowed etc. it’s not a dirty word.

Ah interesting. Because I got shamed for saying no to my 8-9 month old baby. Apparently they don't understand and shouldn't be told no.

Now the babies are older ( around 2 ) and whenever we discuss them doing stuff they shouldn't, the same mum always talks about how she just distracts her child..

That does not work with my child. I have to be quite firm already. But seems like none of the other mums I know need to do that and just ignoring or distracting works. Always makes me feel pretty shit when we talk about it. Whereas my own mum and extended family think I need to be even firmer with my child. Who knows what's right. Trying to find the balance is hard.

I think no is an excellent word for use with tiny people. It’s short and the concept it coveys is vital.

Any alternative is more complex and something a tiny person will fair to grasp.

There's nothing wrong with the word no. It's not used often enough!
Mine were told no from birth. They're still told no as adults.
No is a great word.

bullbyh
Seriously all this ' mummy shaming' and ' baby shaming ' is utter bollocks! People like to be smug and superior
How would a child learn what no means if they are never taught it.
Did your parents say no to you. I bet they did . I also bet you turned out to to be a decent person.
Believe in yourself. Set boundaries with your child in a firm and fair way, especially at their age now and it will pay dividends.
I am not talking about being harsh or mean but lay down your expectations and follow through.

It may be hard now now but it will be a hell of a lot harder when they have no boundaries when they are bigger and taller than you at 14, believe me.
Tryst your instinct. I'm sure your doing great.
Also dont worry if you get things wrong sometimes. Everyone does!
I still get things wrong and one of mine is 26!!🤣

Gentle parenting seems to mean expecting a very young child to have the emotional intelligence and understanding of an adult. They don’t. I’m sure people mean well by it - maybe they’ve had very harsh parenting themselves and so want to be the opposite for their kids. But overall I think it’s it’s damaging and confusing to the child.

It's definitely a gentle parenting thing. I've had similar when I've had to stop my very willful 4 year old from jumping off the top of the slide at the park, and some other mother looked at me as if I'd sworn at my DD.

I do follow up on Nos with the reason why they shouldn't be doing something. But it's usually an "Oi, small person, do you really think it's a good idea to do that? You could really hurt yourself/someone else. Let's try XYZ to be a bit safer."

My son had a friend whose parents never told him ‘no’. It was a conscious decision so that he would grow up to be confident. It was also a conscious decision for my son to stop playing with him when she couldn’t stop him jumping on my child’s head on several play dates.

My username isn't tailored to your post but it should be!

Of course I say 'no'. I always try to follow it up with an explanation and a correction to what we can do, partly because it stands more chance of success, partly because it makes sure I'm being reasonable and not just saying no for the sake of it and partly because it's usually more fun to engage with toddler and see his tiny cogs working!

My favourite recent outcome of this is that, instead of saying "stop talking, Mummy!" he has taken on board my explanatory reprimand and now (whenever he wants me to stop talking) comes out with, "...We don't say "stop talking", Mummy, because it's very rude..."

It strikes me as being in much the same vein as listening to a work collegue and replying, "...We don't say "Fuck You", Nigel, because it's very rude..." before walking away, but I can't technically fault him! So I think it...works...?

Tell her to fuck off

I was going to say exactly the same thing

It’s the lack of ‘no’ that contributes to some childrens poor ability to deal with negativity when they face it. She totally bonkers.

Back from baby class and mum and daughter were there again demonstrating their superior parenting skills! To be fair her daughter was pretty well behaved so it must be working for her, but she seemed to be talking at her quite a lot iyswim?

Having done my homework last night she was using all the right phrases (according to Instagram...), but it sounded like she was talking to a much older child. She'd get half way through an explanation and her daughter had stopped listening and wandered off to the next shiny thing. It was like when DH tries to explain the pros and cons of VAR to DS, except he's doing it as a joke...

Oh well, takes all kinds I guess. At least this time DS didn't try to steal from other babies so I didn't get any pitying looks

I work in a primary school and you can tell the children who have never been told no. I think a previous poster mentioned that they turn everything into a negotiation. Unfortunately, they are shocked when told there is very little that is negotiable in school. They think it’s unfair that they don’t get to call the shots. My stock answer. Life is not fair so we all need to learn to deal with it.

@Fairislefandango

"Practically feral"? Where is this primary school?

I'm a teacher and know lots of teachers in primary and secondary schools. It's common knowledge that behaviour is horrendous at the moment, partly due to the disruption caused by the pandemic. I'm hearing the word 'feral' a lot. Obviously it's a bit of an exaggerated word to use, but the lack of pre-school socialisation for those children now in the first couple of years of primary has had a pretty profound effect. There's lots of screaming in each others' faces at the slightest disagreement, pushing and shoving, meltdowns etc.

All ages are having issues - whole cohorts feel like they're a couple of years behind in terms of maturity. They aren't coping with relating to each other, making it through the school day without endless dramas, or interacting appropriately with staff. Not all of them, obviously, but an unusually high number.

But that's nothing to do with parenting - and in fact it seems pretty awful to blame parents, who have had to deal with this unique and very difficult challenge.

@stimpyyouidiot snap!

@stimpyyouidiot

I must say the word 'no' more than 50 million times a day in my house.

Bad parent alert 🤦🏻‍♀️

I don't think you're a bad parent but I'm not sure that you've done any better a job of teaching your children that 'no means no' than the people who refuse to use it at all!

Tell her to fuck off.
Tell your child no it will become a brat.

Back from baby class and mum and daughter were there again demonstrating their superior parenting skills! To be fair her daughter was pretty well behaved so it must be working for her, but she seemed to be talking at her quite a lot iyswim
Seriously OP ignore. I went to one of these baby classes nd you had those type parents then (25years ago) it was the reason I never went back. A I said to Bullbyh trust yourself. The expression theses days is ‘you do you’ back in my days it was ‘don’t give a fuck’

The art of the Paddington Stare is a great one to have. Also retorts such as ‘mmm ‘ ‘ah, right’ and other non commitment words is handy.

If you want to go hardcore you can do a subtle roll of the eyes where the person dosnt know if you meant it or not.

Enjoy your baby and don’t be put off by the sm ones. They don’t know better, they are doing things there way which is fine but they re overstepping when they put heir beak in.

@cassgate

I work in a primary school and you can tell the children who have never been told no. I think a previous poster mentioned that they turn everything into a negotiation. Unfortunately, they are shocked when told there is very little that is negotiable in school. They think it’s unfair that they don’t get to call the shots. My stock answer. Life is not fair so we all need to learn to deal with it.

Absolutely. Life ain't fair

[quote worriedatthemoment]@TrippinEdBalls but their kids are not raising their children as they are raised, they are following some trend on instagram or reading a book
Its not bad parenting originally is it , as you could argue they have brought up children who think for themselves and maybe survived being told no[/quote]
No, indeed they're not parenting as they were parenting. They've consciously and deliberately rejecting how they were parented. Which is a bit odd since apparently the older generation parented so perfectly with such excellent outcomes, isn't it?

I've never met a parent in real life who doesn't say no, and I'm not convinced they're nearly as widespread as people here are claiming. But the people I know who are very dedicated to gentle parenting - I'm not one of them, though I agree with some of the principles - are all, without exception, trying to do better than the awful parenting they received.

@cassgate

I work in a primary school and you can tell the children who have never been told no. I think a previous poster mentioned that they turn everything into a negotiation. Unfortunately, they are shocked when told there is very little that is negotiable in school. They think it’s unfair that they don’t get to call the shots. My stock answer. Life is not fair so we all need to learn to deal with it.

Precisely. Parents might not like it, but kids will come across the idea of No as soon as they hit school anyway.

Any parent who doesn't get this is immediately setting themselves and their kid up for problems at school.

Two of my good friends work in primary schools and they both use that exact line about life not being fair when they have kids who don't listen to a no.

Its very obvious which kids and parents have issues with the word no and which just let them run riot. Its not gentle parenting. Its an abdication of parenting.

Knowing when to use no effectively is the key bit and backing that up. Not refusing to use it.

[quote worriedatthemoment]@UndertheCedartree and thats your choice and maybe its worked for you nut your child will be told no on life , so if they ask for a biscuit and you don't want to give one do you give in or say how they can't have one as dinner is soon , as the 2nd is basically saying no
Picking up on the word is pointless
As if i say t mine no you can't have a biscuit as tea is soon and you say you can't what odds does it make
Also regardless the other lady has no right to call OP out in publc of what she is saying to her child
There are a lot worse behaved kids around nowadays [/quote]
I said the OP was not being unreasonable and of course she can parent her DC how she likes.

I just wondered if the not saying 'no' had come from the same article I read.

My DS is 14 now so yes, he has been told 'no' - as I said I just avoided it while he was a baby and toddler. It was a long time ago now, but from what I remember, if for example he was running at the pool, I wouldn't say 'no, don't run', I'd just say 'walk'. I think with the biscuit one I'd say 'after dinner'.
Picking up on the word 'no' was precisely the point (so they didn't copy it) as well as framing things positively. The odds it made was he never said 'no' to me as a baby or toddler and was more cooperative! We all know the classic stubborn toddler!

@Invasionofthegutsnatchers

Dear God. I'm an infant school teacher and the number of children who do not respond to 'no', however gently spoken, is shocking. A large group of parents openly admit that the child does what they like at home.

And what's the betting that they expect school to sort out their appalling off-spring. If anyone quotes the idiocy that is 'gentle' parenting to me I always point out that it's almost 'neglect', anagramatically, (if that's even a word).

@Fairislefandango

"Practically feral"? Where is this primary school?

I'm a teacher and know lots of teachers in primary and secondary schools. It's common knowledge that behaviour is horrendous at the moment, partly due to the disruption caused by the pandemic. I'm hearing the word 'feral' a lot. Obviously it's a bit of an exaggerated word to use, but the lack of pre-school socialisation for those children now in the first couple of years of primary has had a pretty profound effect. There's lots of screaming in each others' faces at the slightest disagreement, pushing and shoving, meltdowns etc.

All ages are having issues - whole cohorts feel like they're a couple of years behind in terms of maturity. They aren't coping with relating to each other, making it through the school day without endless dramas, or interacting appropriately with staff. Not all of them, obviously, but an unusually high number.

If you look back a couple of years on this site the same questions were being asked regarding the poor behaviour in schools and the lack of parental support that condones it. Are we now at the stage where all appalling behaviour will be excused because of the pandemic? It's true that for some children it has caused a deterioration in behaviour but there has always been a large number of poor parents.

Another mother in the group then said she didn't believe in using the word no

If she says it again you slowly raise your eyebrows, look at her, look towards her child and say 'And it shows'.