To not understand what's wrong with the word "No"?

[MoltenLasagne]

Last week I was mum-shamed at a baby class for using the word "no". Basically my baby went to snatch off another child and I said "no" and distracted him with something else. Another mother in the group then said she didn't believe in using the word no and looked at me like I'd just handed my baby a tin of coke and a bag of chips.

Sadly my only response to that was "oh" and I've been brewing on it ever since. I can't decide if I'm pissed off or bemused, but mostly I don't understand what on earth is wrong with the word "no" and I'm clearly massively behind on some parenting insights.

Anyway I'm going back to the class tomorrow and this woman is blatantly going to be there so I'd like to understand exactly what I'm missing!
Is there something wrong with the word no?
YABU - I don't use the word no with my kids because (and please explain!)
YANBU - this woman is inventing stuff, it's a totally normal word and you don't need to feel like a dreadful mother.

There has always been bad behaviour. And yes, there is plenty of bad parenting. One of the problems is that parents used to largely blame their kids when they behaved badly. Now lots of them blame teachers and let their kids do what they want. My first comment on this thread was that I've taught far too many kids whose parents clearly haven't said no to them enough - I'm not excusing bad parenting at all.

So no, the pandemic does not excuse poor parenting. But there are specific aspects of behaviour at the moment which I (and many, many other teachers) do put at least partly down to the pandemic.

@Fairislefandango

There has always been bad behaviour. And yes, there is plenty of bad parenting. One of the problems is that parents used to largely blame their kids when they behaved badly. Now lots of them blame teachers and let their kids do what they want. My first comment on this thread was that I've taught far too many kids whose parents clearly haven't said no to them enough - I'm not excusing bad parenting at all.

So no, the pandemic does not excuse poor parenting. But there are specific aspects of behaviour at the moment which I (and many, many other teachers) do put at least partly down to the pandemic.

Yes it's never the parents

Also the disdain for any authority seems to be apparent in some parenting

But that's nothing to do with parenting - and in fact it seems pretty awful to blame parents, who have had to deal with this unique and very difficult challenge.

It is partly to do with parenting. It's to do with how parents have parented their children through the pandemic. Some aspects of that were not within their entire control in some cases, and it affected different families in different ways, but I don't think you can say it has nothing to do with parenting.

Besides, current poor behaviour can't entirely be blamed on the pandemic. There are obviously plenty of kids who behaved appallingly before the pandemic and will continue to do so.

Yanbu. It's easy to give your child a cosy, delicate childhood where everything is rosy, not so easy to pick the peaces up when the real world crushes them like a grape.

I don't know when people think this golden age where children were well-behaved was but people past their own prime have been complaining that today's youth are uniquely badly behaved for time immemorial.

I think she had probably come across positive parenting, but not really understood it. It’s much easier for kids to behave if the know what you want, rather than having to work it out from what you don’t want. So being clear in your expectations, and it’s nicer for ANYONE to gave a positive request. ‘Feet on the floor’ is more helpful than ‘no climbing’

I don’t use no a lot, it becomes a habit. I read somewhere that they average 3 year old gears ‘no’ 300 hundred times a day. No wonder they tune it out! I also I ‘STOP’ for an emergency. (Bloody stops them saying ‘no’ back though!)

No is a powerful word. I think it has a place, for sure. But not 300 times a day.

I was surprised when my oldest friend said she would never use the word no to her 3 year old when he was born. Instead she says something like ‘baby let’s do xyz instead’ in a sing song voice…..so now toddler says ‘baby’ in a sing song voice when he means no. Not sure that has quite worked out! Her son is a lovely boy but I find this amusing.

If I don't use the word no for my little one, he would set fires, cause riots, loot shops and get run over by a car. The only thing that is stopping him from doing that is a firm no, a disapproval look and removing him from the situation. Of course I talk to him and explain but no means no and he doesn't get a free pass, he needs to learn boundaries and I'm lucky his nursery is also on the same page as well.

Without being too outing this area is sort of relevant to my job and I'm also a mum of two. Firstly: to each their own and I don't believe that there is such a thing as 'perfect parenting'. But for what it's worth... Personally I think No is perfectly fine when used appropriately - kids need boundaries to feel safe and also there are situations both then and later in life where "no" very much applies as is necessary. My sister trialled not using no at all for the first 2.5 years for her eldest and has recently started to due to the challenging behaviours he can display, sometimes situations were becoming dangerous. My SiL also firmly believed against using the word no and honestly, it makes for some seriously unattractive behaviour when a child reaches 7 and isn't used to being told no and being given choice over everything.

I'd just say "that's a shame" and move on! It's idiocy, setting children up for failure from my point of view.

@Fairislefandango

But that's nothing to do with parenting - and in fact it seems pretty awful to blame parents, who have had to deal with this unique and very difficult challenge.

It is partly to do with parenting. It's to do with how parents have parented their children through the pandemic. Some aspects of that were not within their entire control in some cases, and it affected different families in different ways, but I don't think you can say it has nothing to do with parenting.

Besides, current poor behaviour can't entirely be blamed on the pandemic. There are obviously plenty of kids who behaved appallingly before the pandemic and will continue to do so.

@Fairislefandango - it's not parenting choice though. I'm utterly ashamed at the "parenting" I did during the pandemic. Home schooling with fuck all support from the school (3 weeks worth of worksheets and tasks dumped on us at a time with no plan or direction and zero face to face learning), both me and DH working from home in stressful full time jobs and me studying part time. It was HELL. We all cried A Lot! DS suffered. That wasn't my parenting style.

Children need to know boundaries and why they are there. The wording you choose to implement that is a personal one. The other parent has no right butting in on your parenting,

I agree with the comment upthread that positive parenting has been so misunderstood that parents now think that the word no somehow equates to to poor parenting. This is pure semantics! Children need to learn right from wrong and some of this does, in fact, involve saying no. Teachers know which kids know right from wrong so listen to your child's teacher and you will be doing the best by your child

@KeepYaHeadUp

My favourite thing is to read/hear people slating modern day, useless parents and their badly behaved kids saying "it wasn't like that in my day, no wonder kids these days are so awful". They never follow this to it's logical conclusion; they're the people who raised the current batch of shit parents so perhaps didn't do a great job of modelling excellent parenting

Ummm….parenting styles are constantly evolving not just by generational stage.

My eldest are 13, I only heard of ‘crunchy parenting’ way after they were born.

I can object to a parenting style without having brought anyone up to adulthood!

Those who have mentioned the choices, negotiations etc, I thought of this thread the other day. We were sitting on a bench at the seafront having a cup of tea and a family with 2 under 7’s were leaving the play park. The negotiating etc to actually get out of the play park was lengthy, I was exhausted just listening and wanted to shout “ just say we are going now”! Obviously I didn’t.

Obviously I get that you need to warn them in advance about the end of an activity, just as I used to do when teaching little ones, but this was ridiculous, parenting is hard as it is without this exhausting routine.

Raise your eyes to heaven in a really obvious way and if she attempts to offer an opinion say "didn't ask for your opinion" and turn away.

She deserves everything that is coming her way!

I might avoid saying no to a toddler for a quiet life where possible. But couldn't avoid it altogether and for older than toddler I think it's important they are told no and can say no as an option at times too.

@Sally872 I absolutely agree with you

I work in a nursery and despair of parents that don’t teach their child the meaning of “no” and those that can’t handle their child crying.
It makes our job so much harder

I say no to my toddler all the time and I consider myself a relatively ‘gentle’ parent. These threads annoy me when users say ‘oh that’s gentle parenting for you’. That’s not gentle parenting at all. Gentle parenting completely advocates boundaries and saying ‘no’. It’s this weird idea that lots of advocates and critics of gentle parenting have got that it is somehow permissive. It’s got massively warped to fit a narrative of lazy parenting.

No is a clear instruction as a childminder I desperately wish parents would use it, instead I have children who think that I'm as easily manipulated as their parents who are too afraid to say no.

Wait till they get into the world of work!! Boooom !!! that’s going to hurt, & they only have the silly parents that put them in that corner,stupid