Who’s in the wrong? Unsociable or sociable?

[ShittyFingers]

Person A is pretty unsociable. She gets on the bus and looks forward to time alone to sit and think/daydream during her 1 hour journey.

Person B is sociable and looks forward the her 1 hour journey to chat.

Bus has lots of empty seats. Person B decides to sit next to Person A and try to strike up conversation. Person A is polite but makes it obvious she doesn’t want to talk. Person B is a little offended and thinks Person A is a miserable sod. After a few more attempts to make light conversation, person A moves seats. Person B now very upset and this plays on her mind all day.

Let’s say Covid isn’t a thing.

Who is unreasonable?

YABU - person A could have made more effort, it wouldn’t have killed her to chat

YANBU - person Bs wish to socialise doesn’t trump person A’s wish to not socialise

It happened to me on a train. I capitulated in the end. I'm not sure I got much out of the convo, and I'd def have preferred the hour listening to music and playing my mini games.

I thought she was rude; she was American and wouldn't give up. I could have ignored her. I'm normally good at that, but that say I gave in.

No one has the right to expect you to chat to them, esp if they're total strangers! YANBU, and you're also not miserable!

YANBU - Person B is definitely in the wrong.

I totally relate to person A but I think moving seats is a bit rude, If I didnt want to chat I would read , make short answers, put earphones in, avoid eye contact- although sometimes you can meet interesting people and have a really nice chat!
I think if I was person B I would feel bad if someone moved seats to clearly avoid me, although they should have picked up on signals better, they both should have behaved better tbh, and maybe B is lonely?

Then the real feelings of the majority of people on this thread show why there are these problems these days. Well thanks for being honest you utterly horrible people.

Erm. Okay then. People will be drawn to this thread by the title, so you're not getting a representative sample. And what many people are saying is that B should just get better at reading social cues. It's not that everyone should stop talking to each other, but that someone's need to chat does not trump someone else's need to have some quiet time.

I'm sorry people are lonely. But there are ways to go about solving that and talking to someone who doesn't want to be talked at is not one of them. People on here aren't horrible. They just want the recognition that sometimes they'd like not to talk to strangers.

@SylvieB74

I wouldn’t mind someone talking to me on a bus. I go swimming most mornings a few older people talk and there’s nothing wrong with that, it doesn’t cost anything! All we hear is these days is about crippling loneliness and ‘be kind’ etc, utter balls written on social media about how people are always available, (or so they say) and don’t be alone, mental health blah blah. Then the real feelings of the majority of people on this thread show why there are these problems these days. Well thanks for being honest you utterly horrible people.

”….someone's need to chat does not trump someone else's need to have some quiet time…”

Spot on, @WisherWood!

@SylvieB74 - just because you are happy to talk to people on the bus, doesn’t mean everyone feels the same! It sounds as if you are saying that the extroverts, who are happy to chat anywhere, any time, are the lovely ones, and the introverts are utterly horrible - which betrays a complete lack of understanding of what it is like to be an introvert. You seemingly think it is just fine to force someone into a social interaction that is making them uncomfortable - which is what B did to A.

And B was not in massive emotional need - she just wanted a chat. Presumably if she had appeared upset, @ShittyFingers‘ would have responded differently - but that was not the case. A needed peace, quiet and her own thoughts, B wanted a gossip - and you think that B’s wants should trump A’s needs.

I am an introvert, and whilst I can and do force myself into social situations, it is not easy for me, and it is emotionally very tiring for me. There comes a point where I really, really need some alone time, or at least some time where no-one is talking to me. Even then, if someone is in actual need, I will push myself to help, but if someone just wants a mindless chat, why do their wants outrank my need for some quiet and time to recharge?

I wouldn’t mind someone talking to me on a bus. I go swimming most mornings a few older people talk and there’s nothing wrong with that, it doesn’t cost anything! All we hear is these days is about crippling loneliness and ‘be kind’ etc, utter balls written on social media about how people are always available, (or so they say) and don’t be alone, mental health blah blah. Then the real feelings of the majority of people on this thread show why there are these problems these days. Well thanks for being honest you utterly horrible people.

OP’s post about the woman after mentioning it to another bus rider:

“I’m person A. I mentioned the encounter to someone else who often gets the same bus and she said something along the lines of “Oh do you mean Michelle? Bless her she talks to everyone! She’ll have been thinking about it all day after that”.

Person B has form for this so she could have waited until there was someone who wanted to talk to her than making a beeline for someone on an almost empty bus, talking at them, and ignoring their wishes to be left alone where it made them feel fed up to move.

If she is known for this, surely she could have waited until someone boarded who liked to chat with her instead choosing someone who hinted several times they weren’t up for it.

I see it all the time on my regular commute, some regulars are like OP and some are like B will board the bus and chatty people like B chat away while others like A will just give a smile and nod and be left alone. Everyone is content because everyone is being considered. Those who want to be left alone are being left alone and those who are chatty chat to someone else who is chatty.

People like B shouldn’t be entitled to take away from people like OP because of their need to chat.

Fine if you are happy to chat to people and don’t mind but calling people horrible because they don’t want to for their own personal reasons mental health doesn’t make you better and definitely doesn’t make you kind.

You can get yellow bandanas, leads, and collars for dogs that say 'nervous' on... to show people that their dog needs space.

Honestly this has crossed my mind before when I’ve had my most anxious periods. Like putting P plates on the car to tell people you might be a hesitant driver. I could use something that tells people ‘sorry if I appear to be struggling to function, I’m a nervous wreck’

I am an introvert, and whilst I can and do force myself into social situations, it is not easy for me, and it is emotionally very tiring for me. There comes a point where I really,reallyneed some alone time, or at least some time where no-one is talking to me. Even then, if someone is in actual need, I will push myself to help, but if someone just wants a mindless chat, why do their wants outrank my need for some quiet and time to recharge?

Totally agree.
Also getting on a bus to go to work and going for a quiet swim are not really social occasions where you even expect people to be chatting to you.
If people are meeting with friends at the pool then you expect they will chat but actually in the pool its really annoying to hear someone yapping away.
People go to exercise and destress not to listen to someone droning on.
If needing to swim, enjoy the quiet and bliss of the water makes me "horrible" I give zero fucks.

I am extremely deaf. It’s so very embarrassing if someone wants to chat, I can’t. It’s bad enough being deaf without somebody taking offence because you’re not chatting.

Had this on a train. Sat in a back seat, 30 minutes of peace after a long day of work calls. Woman deliberately avoided all the commuting men and came opposite me laterally and talked and talked at me. I did make pleasantries and said I have to do a spot of work would you excuse me? She just kept at it and after about five minutes I just ignored her / looked at phone. She still tried. It was like getting a toddler to sleep. Anyway she looked upset and I felt bad afterwards but honestly I didn’t have the energy. I’m with you A.

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

How do you know how person B felt all day?

That’s exactly what I thought as soon as I read that odd detail.

Can’t be bothered trtft do we find out?

@SylvieB74

I wouldn’t mind someone talking to me on a bus. I go swimming most mornings a few older people talk and there’s nothing wrong with that, it doesn’t cost anything! All we hear is these days is about crippling loneliness and ‘be kind’ etc, utter balls written on social media about how people are always available, (or so they say) and don’t be alone, mental health blah blah. Then the real feelings of the majority of people on this thread show why there are these problems these days. Well thanks for being honest you utterly horrible people.

Why does the “be kind” only apply to the people who want to chat?

What about being kind to the person who is overwhelmed with life and just wants a bit of peace?

Your last sentence says far more about you than someone not wanting to talk to a random stranger on the bus

@SylvieB74

I wouldn’t mind someone talking to me on a bus. I go swimming most mornings a few older people talk and there’s nothing wrong with that, it doesn’t cost anything! All we hear is these days is about crippling loneliness and ‘be kind’ etc, utter balls written on social media about how people are always available, (or so they say) and don’t be alone, mental health blah blah. Then the real feelings of the majority of people on this thread show why there are these problems these days. Well thanks for being honest you utterly horrible people.

People post the things you mention on social media a lot and it is more aimed at people they know. I certainly have, and with online communication, or even just plain phone calls.. you have an element of control if you do not feel able to respond in a way you would like. A stranger approaching you on the bus? Totally different! They sit next to you, and worse, trap you in your seat. Most people might feel a little awkward, and some might get up and move. I have panicked and left the bus... fucking up my journey home. Does that make me such a horrible person? Or maybe the person who insisted on chatting at me should have got the hint and left me alone.

You can get yellow bandanas, leads, and collars for dogs that say 'nervous' on... to show people that their dog needs space.
An equivalent thing for humans would be great.

Possibly. But the human version should be for the dogs that need to chat. Why do people who want quiet need to guard themselves with headphones, books or something adapted from dogs? You want to chat, advertise that fact. Why is that chattiness is seen as the default and not something that needs declaring, whereas the need for quiet is seen as something which should be signposted with some form or armour?

I find it interesting that the self proclaimed socially skilled chatters dont recognise that being socially skilled is knowing when to speak and when not to speak.
They have adopted chatting as a mark of social skills when actually its the opposite.
Listening and silence is where the skills are.
Recognising the needs of others.

Person A or B shouldn't get offended. Person B was polite and tried to converse with person A.

If person A doesn't wanted to converse then take the hint and sit on another seat.

Don't take it personally, no-one should get offended. You can't force people to converse.

I don't mind brief pleasantries with strangers or catching up with friends when I see them out but I'm quite unsociable generally. I choose my circle carefully and there's nothing wrong with that. You have to respect your own and other people's boundaries.

there’s nothing wrong with that, it doesn’t cost anything!

If people talking to you doesn’t cost you anything, that’s great but it means you don’t understand what it’s like to be an introvert. If I don’t get a break from people talking to me, quite often, it will cost me my well-being, energy, and at its worst, sanity. It’s hard to describe but it feel like my mind is like a train and I need to let it run and build up speed uninterrupted. When people talk to me it’s like the train is being dragged off the rails. That’s ok sometimes, I can have long conversations sometimes, I chat to my DC and friends etc. but if I don’t get the times without it, I feel massively stressed and miserable. Someone coming up and talking to me when I don’t want that costs me a lot.

Yes in some ways you are correct but that is one way of looking at it. But maybe person A is really shy and introverted and finds this very intrusive. Maybe they have depression and use that time to be in their own world before they arrive at work. Maybe B needs to be aware of other people's needs. There is not necessarily a right or wrong here, but I do find it strange that the bus had loads of empty seats, yet they decide to sit beside someone else.

That would be me @ShittyFingers but instead of siting somewhere else on the bus, I’d probably get off at the nearest stop!

@RiyaJ

Person A or B shouldn't get offended. Person B was polite and tried to converse with person A.

If person A doesn't wanted to converse then take the hint and sit on another seat.

Don't take it personally, no-one should get offended. You can't force people to converse.

I think that that's it really.

A removed themselves from a situation that they didn't want to be in.

Good for them!

@FirewomanSam

You can get yellow bandanas, leads, and collars for dogs that say 'nervous' on... to show people that their dog needs space.

Honestly this has crossed my mind before when I’ve had my most anxious periods. Like putting P plates on the car to tell people you might be a hesitant driver. I could use something that tells people ‘sorry if I appear to be struggling to function, I’m a nervous wreck’

Not going to work.

You'd be besieged by "Are you OK?" "Can I do anything" " Oh I remember when my friend's sister's niece felt like that - let me tell you what she did....."

I'm a Northerner; someone wanting to have a friendly chat wouldn't bother me at all, and I don't consider it rude or in any way offensive!

Interestingly despite being person A to the max, I find it all easier when I'm back home in Yorkshire. People do randomly chat a lot but it's very warm, open and straight up. I don't feel pressured and I know if I said I had to read/be alone they would be unlikely to take offence.

Once I was sitting on a platform at Leeds station and the woman next to me told me all about her current house move which kept going wrong in spectacular ways. It was hilarious and she was lovely.

But even that is not like coming over and parking yourself next to someone on a mostly empty bus.

@Viselli

I'm a Northerner; someone wanting to have a friendly chat wouldn't bother me at all, and I don't consider it rude or in any way offensive!

I'm a Northener too. I wouldn't find it weird if someone chatted to me at the bus stop but I'd find it odd if a relative stranger sat next to me on a near empty bus and tried to chat. I feel like that's pushing it.