Are we able to discuss the Black students trapped in Ukraine on here?

[EddyF]

I think I have read most threads on here about Ukraine/Russia but have not seen any discussions on this issue here.

I saw on TikTok (yup, TikTok has so much information/videos on what’s going on) that Jamaica has now managed to get its people out. It’s the majority of African students that are facing problems getting out. I’m wondering what African leaders are doing about it? A lot of the African-American blogs/comments are furious about this issue (rightly so).

I cant understand the reports seem to imply the black students were to to go to a different border to cross and that's why they were denied crossing? I mean does it really matter which border you go to?

So glad you've posted about this, OP as I've missed any news items on it and don't do much social media.

It's appalling. Any cases need calling out. Racism in Eastern Europe is well documented. Here (UK) we've seen many examples from behaviour in football matches to political rallies with Nazi salutes. The idea that just because a country is under attack it's excluded from being called out on it is preposterous.

I'm not (sadly) surprised. Ukraine is mainly populated by white Christians, hence the demand that their refugees should be allowed into the UK for 3 years.

No fucks given for the darker skinned non-christians who have been facing war for years and years.

@Bonheurdupasse

There's a lot of Russian sponsored trolls on the Internet spreading misinformation (see - Reddit has "quarantined" the Russia sub because of that) and they have picked up on some such incidents and making it look like this is way more widespread than in reality. If you look you can see first hand testimonials from black people in the situation talking about the warm treatment they're received- they should be given credibility too.

This is an exaggeration- there have been lots of stories of poc students struggling to get out of Ukraine and these poc don’t have links with Russia (which has huge issues with racism and people of colour - which is widely recognised)

@Ifailed

I'm not (sadly) surprised. Ukraine is mainly populated by white Christians, hence the demand that their refugees should be allowed into the UK for 3 years.

No fucks given for the darker skinned non-christians who have been facing war for years and years.

THIS 👍

@hibbledibble

I agree beware of misinformation here

What misinformation would that be?

@MarshmallowSwede

War is not a reason to be racist. Being attacked doe not give Ukrainians or anyone the right to misread black people who are also in danger.

All this nonsense about “Ukrainians first “ .. even women and children there are black female students there so what’s the reason they aren’t being allowed to cross?

I would love to hear the answers.

This.

@Ifailed

I'm not (sadly) surprised. Ukraine is mainly populated by white Christians, hence the demand that their refugees should be allowed into the UK for 3 years.

No fucks given for the darker skinned non-christians who have been facing war for years and years.

That's harsh. Why do you give no fucks about darker skinned people?

Just here to ask Mumsnet not to delete this thread too. Deleting threads discussing this is not helpful. I would rather they stand so we and others can see them for posterity and so people can’t say we don’t get replies as we do.

What misinformation would that be?

Putin's propaganda.

I hope that this thread will not be derailed/ deleted too.

Surely black people ( white people, green or polkadot) people with a vested interest in Ukraine will be keen to defend its ideals, freedom and right to exist?

Women with young children and the elderly should be the only priority.

Well I think people will know that this is happening to black/ brown people now. Some people will always have something to say about it being this and that for some reason.

Ofcourse these white Eastern Europeans can be racist. Being under attack doesn’t change what they believe. Or do we want to deny that so we carry on believing how amazing and super hero like they are, don’t want these annoying black people coming along and shitting on their parade? I don’t understand why else so many white people are in denial about this or minimising it so much. Those countries are extremely racist. I mean, in the U.K. the obviously racist stares I get are from Eastern European people that haven’t been here that long, and not white British people. They seem to think I’ve arrived here on the banana boat, despite my parents having arrived many years ago paying their taxes etc but nope, they are very much like “how dare YOU come over here”. It’s quite pathetic really. What’s more pathetic is people coming onto these boards and denying it’s happening and blaming the Russians, that’s sinking pretty low really. I would give everyone respect if they accepted it to be a massive problem and condemning it but noooo those black people are making it up, those Russians are spreading propaganda. These threads are such an eye opener.

If you had a son in Ukraine now, a student perhaps on a year abroad, you wouldn't want them home train? What is the vested interest?

Yes the racist deniers are on here too, as always.

@EddyF

I think I have read most threads on here about Ukraine/Russia but have not seen any discussions on this issue here.

I saw on TikTok (yup, TikTok has so much information/videos on what’s going on) that Jamaica has now managed to get its people out. It’s the majority of African students that are facing problems getting out. I’m wondering what African leaders are doing about it? A lot of the African-American blogs/comments are furious about this issue (rightly so).

You're free to try and discuss it, but 'discussions' regarding race generally end up in a bun fight here on MN, with the most vocal parties proclaiming there is no such thing as racism...

I posted quite patiently on the previous thread but was told repeatedly that raising any questions about racism without saying that Putin was the aggressor made us ‘woke British women.’

I then tried to talk about the international refugee regime itself which is quite racist (in its origins and operations)- I am an academic. I have been writing about it for over a decade and I teach this stuff (race and migration) at a big US university. A poster told me my understanding of it was ‘rudimentary’ and then when I posted some links from my UG reading list told me she didn’t have time to read random stuff on the internet.

So in general I gave up.

@TooTiredToSleepRightNow

Ofcourse these white Eastern Europeans can be racist. Being under attack doesn’t change what they believe. Or do we want to deny that so we carry on believing how amazing and super hero like they are, don’t want these annoying black people coming along and shitting on their parade? I don’t understand why else so many white people are in denial about this or minimising it so much. Those countries are extremely racist. I mean, in the U.K. the obviously racist stares I get are from Eastern European people that haven’t been here that long, and not white British people. They seem to think I’ve arrived here on the banana boat, despite my parents having arrived many years ago paying their taxes etc but nope, they are very much like “how dare YOU come over here”. It’s quite pathetic really. What’s more pathetic is people coming onto these boards and denying it’s happening and blaming the Russians, that’s sinking pretty low really. I would give everyone respect if they accepted it to be a massive problem and condemning it but noooo those black people are making it up, those Russians are spreading propaganda. These threads are such an eye opener.

At least one video from the previous deleted thread was clearly Russian propaganda. It showed a black family left behind on the empty train platform, denied boarding while the evacuation train was appartently departing half empty.

This is not what is happening with the evacuation trains. People are sleeping on the platforms in hope of squeezing into the next one, and people are undertaking 12+ hours journeys standing in the carriage.

The one where students were asked to go to a different queue was already explained, I think - Poland opened fast-track enrty procedures to Ukrainian citizens only, and citizens of all other countries had to go to a different one to go through a full immigration process.

This is not to say that there's no issue with racism in Ukraine, there is, a significant one. But, maybe, don't immediately jump to the conclusions.

I think what Putin is doing in Ukraine is appalling. I think ordinary Ukrainians are putting up an impressive resistance, and I am very afraid for their safety and their future. None of this prevents me from finding active, blatant racism unacceptable. It's possible to hold both of those emotional spaces at the same time. There were some proper boneheads on the other threads I saw (and a few racists, too).

Very succinctly put. Couldn’t agree more.

@MangshorJhol

I posted quite patiently on the previous thread but was told repeatedly that raising any questions about racism without saying that Putin was the aggressor made us ‘woke British women.’

I then tried to talk about the international refugee regime itself which is quite racist (in its origins and operations)- I am an academic. I have been writing about it for over a decade and I teach this stuff (race and migration) at a big US university. A poster told me my understanding of it was ‘rudimentary’ and then when I posted some links from my UG reading list told me she didn’t have time to read random stuff on the internet.

So in general I gave up.

I would love those links.

I’ve just had an almighty falling out with my husband who told me my views were outrageous and offence for highlighting the racism the black students were experiencing and also the way the media has reported on the invasion. I’ve never been so disappointed in him (he’s while, I’m not). But one of the things I have tried to explain before is the way international refugees are treated, so I would love to support my arguments with academic evidence.

There’s a lot of racism on display all over Mumsnet. It’s a real shame. It renders Mumsnet of little relevance to a huge part of the UK population. It’s not a safe space for women of colour.

For what it’s worth, Indian students are also trapped in Ukraine but the situation is a bit more complex. One student was killed yesterday. The Indian govt has sided with Russia and abstained at the UNSC. One MP in Parliament said that those studying medicine in Ukraine had failed to clear Indian medical school exams and were clearly second grade students (implying that they were less worthy of evacuation). But the MEA is trying to organise an evacuation of some sorts I gather.

www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/3/1/indian-student-killed-in-ukraine-amid-criticism-over-evacuation

Ofcourse there is a ridiculous amount of racism in Eastern Europe. Has everyone forgotten that Poland wanted to build a wall to keep out Syrian refugees fleeing war but have welcomed the Ukrainians with open arms? Unashamedly racist