Are we able to discuss the Black students trapped in Ukraine on here?

[EddyF]

I think I have read most threads on here about Ukraine/Russia but have not seen any discussions on this issue here.

I saw on TikTok (yup, TikTok has so much information/videos on what’s going on) that Jamaica has now managed to get its people out. It’s the majority of African students that are facing problems getting out. I’m wondering what African leaders are doing about it? A lot of the African-American blogs/comments are furious about this issue (rightly so).

MangshorJhol, Yes, nearly full house.

@RitaJosephina, are there any non-white Ukrainians? What do you think happens when the turn up at the border? Are they interrogated more than a white Ukrainian? Are they likely to be under suspicion and asked to prove that they are truly Ukrainian? Or do you suppose they are breezily sent through like their white compatriots?

I have not been to the boarder so Im not 100 per cent but here is what I think would happen. Ukrainain people often cross the boarder into Poland...I know some people who live in Poland and then cross there to have music lessons for their kids (cheaper) People from other countires (I would also asume this is white Americans) the rules are different for entering. They need visas so more checks are done. Please remember if you enter Poland you can then travel to any schengen country without having to show ur passport again.

@TooTiredToSleepRightNow

Ofcourse these white Eastern Europeans can be racist. Being under attack doesn’t change what they believe. Or do we want to deny that so we carry on believing how amazing and super hero like they are, don’t want these annoying black people coming along and shitting on their parade? I don’t understand why else so many white people are in denial about this or minimising it so much. Those countries are extremely racist. I mean, in the U.K. the obviously racist stares I get are from Eastern European people that haven’t been here that long, and not white British people. They seem to think I’ve arrived here on the banana boat, despite my parents having arrived many years ago paying their taxes etc but nope, they are very much like “how dare YOU come over here”. It’s quite pathetic really. What’s more pathetic is people coming onto these boards and denying it’s happening and blaming the Russians, that’s sinking pretty low really. I would give everyone respect if they accepted it to be a massive problem and condemning it but noooo those black people are making it up, those Russians are spreading propaganda. These threads are such an eye opener.

100% agree with this. The racism they dole out to my black and South and East Asian friends is beyond a joke. People who have been in the UK since generations getting CalleD out for being POC by newly arrived EE immigrants. It’s beyond confusing. As if being white gives them clout and might over POC.

Ahhh yes mumsnet and racism. Where do I start? They really don’t feel comfortable with threads that discuss racism. I have stopped wondering why.

@MangshorJhol

Yes I can donate to say the Red Cross and say that I find all this talk of ‘but this is happening in a civilised country’ deeply racist. I think there was one journalist who said, this is a civilised country not like Iraq. As if Iraq wasn’t literally home to the one of the world’s oldest civilisations…

Damn. This is an amazing post. Thank you.

Well MN need to do better than what they have been. There is no excuse. If there is no diversity with the mods, then why is that?

I’ve seen some Ghanaian and Nigerian medical students on TT who got out through Romania and the Ghanaian ambassador has come to escort them to the airport in Bucharest. The idea that these Africans are poor and helpless is so wrong, they are the elite who have money to study abroad . I saw other guys who were pro footballers with their cute puppies doing absolutely fine and getting out through Hungary. This white western view of all Africans being starving children in need of white saviours says it all.

@Hellokittyninja

I’ve seen some Ghanaian and Nigerian medical students on TT who got out through Romania and the Ghanaian ambassador has come to escort them to the airport in Bucharest. The idea that these Africans are poor and helpless is so wrong, they are the elite who have money to study abroad . I saw other guys who were pro footballers with their cute puppies doing absolutely fine and getting out through Hungary. This white western view of all Africans being starving children in need of white saviours says it all.

Sure.

If countries like the UK, France and US news channels can broadcast with statements being made that the war in Ukraine is unacceptable because it's a European country with people with blonde hair and blue eyes then what hope is there in EE? Such statements were made that the war is wrong because the victims look like us and have Netflix and instagram accounts and it's not in some remote country anymore and such statements like "this isn't Afghanistan or Iraq, these are middle class white European people fleeing, not Syrians".

Even during a war, I'm not one bit surprised that the Black and Indian people and other nationals are being left out during the evacuation. If a life doesn't matter in another part of the world, that life wouldn't matter even if it's in a European country in the middle of a war zone. White Europe is racist. Christian West is racist because we've seen that when a war broke out in the middle of Europe in the 90's but the population was Muslim so it doesn't matter because Muslims are disposable just like the Black, Indian, Syrian, Afghan and Iraqi population because they aren't white with blue eyes. Bosnians and Kosovar's had blonde and blue eyes and were bang in the middle of Europe but they were Muslims this time so again they didn't make it to the white mans threshold for sympathy.

[quote WeDontTalkAboutBrunoNoNoNo]@forinborin you know absolutely NOTHING about me and what I do or don't understand. If you think my knowledge on this matter is simply limited to a few social media vids and thread on Mumsnet, you are very much mistaken. But thanks for the patronising response, it's gone a really long way to expand my understanding.[/quote]
You're welcome. Yes, I am pretty sure you're not on the ground or close to the situation in any way. And I have been neck deep in the topic for the last couple of days. Shock horror, even helping some non-white people out there.

Can you just possibly imagine that issues experienced by foreign students who:

(a) don't speak the local language at all
(b) don't have access to their usual coordinator who used to handle all life admin stuff for them, as the said coordinator is most likely somewhere under ground in a bomb shelter
(c) don't have the same paperwork as 99.9% of all other people, and their passports / ID cards format is not something that the immigration authorities have to deal with often
(d) are in a society where all the usual rules are broken and - yes - there is some rationing of empathy, and some openly discriminatory rules (children-women-elderly are prioritised)
(e) have next to zero consular support from their own countries
(f) are trying to deal with border guards who are absolutely overwhelmed and working non-stop, around the clock with vulnerable, traumatised and sometimes aggressive people

are not 100% attributable to racism? Note I am not saying it is 0% either.

Being so anti racist that you are actively xenophobic. Without knowledge of culture and language you are only reinforcing your own prejudice. People in Poland or Ukraine may stare at you because they were disgusted. Not because of the skin colour but infameous British behaviour. Drank, vomiting and pissing on the streets, fly tipping. In Poland and Ukraine leaving newspaper at the seat is read as leaving rubbish.

Racism in the UK happens but in "Eastern Europe" it's inherent characteristics of those uncivilized hordes. That's your massage.

@deragod

Being so anti racist that you are actively xenophobic. Without knowledge of culture and language you are only reinforcing your own prejudice. People in Poland or Ukraine may stare at you because they were disgusted. Not because of the skin colour but infameous British behaviour. Drank, vomiting and pissing on the streets, fly tipping. In Poland and Ukraine leaving newspaper at the seat is read as leaving rubbish.

Racism in the UK happens but in "Eastern Europe" it's inherent characteristics of those uncivilized hordes. That's your massage.

Not all generalising is stereotyping/xenophobia, else how can we describe anything, ever? I've met Eastern European's through university and they've all been nice enough to me being non-white but it does appear that racism is a problem over there. Whether through ignorance or malevolence, it exists and many are reluctant to travel there

Bosnians and Kosovar's had blonde and blue eyes and were bang in the middle of Europe but they were Muslims this time so again they didn't make it to the white mans threshold for sympathy.

Tell that to the thousands of British troops who were sent out there where over 50 were killed, scores of others wounded, many left with life changing injuries, and the many others who suffer with PTSD and other related issues to this day.

Yes maybe. But Srebernica. Dutch troops stood by and watched it happen.

As a POC, I have to say that a number of friends who have been to Poland and other parts of Eastern Europe have experienced very open racism. This includes not being served in restaurants, refused taxis and open hostility in public places. For some people the reaction has even been violent. This does not stop what is happening in Ukraine from being very wrong or for it to be right for us all to provide support but given the experience of others few of us would venture to these countries.

@forinborin yes you're absolutely right, I know nothing, I'm not close to the situation in any way at all, you have far more insight than me. And of course you are so very wise that you can glean all of this from a post on MN.

Just overblown propaganda right?

www.voice-online.co.uk/news/world-news/2022/02/27/hundreds-of-africans-trapped-in-ukraine-warzone/

@Madwomanuptheroad29

Just to clarify that I am not saying all or most Eastern Europeans are racist!! I am saying that the regimes can support ouvert and covert Racism to deflect from the real issues - like press freedom, reproductive rights, lgbt rights etc (not talking specifically about Ukraine but more Poland and Hungary)

To their credit, Hungarians welcomed refugees with open arms this time.

Based on the interviews a lot of the non-European students ended up in Budapest as well.

Not "maybe" and I'm talking about British troops - my friends and colleagues who went and "cared" enough to go into the line of fire, come back and have full scale breakdowns from all they'd seen and done including clearing up the leavings of that dreadful war, day after day, some of whom have never fully recovered. And you come back with maybe and whataboutery? No surprises though. Many ignorant middle class MNetters think the armed forces who do all the dirty work are just paid for stupid thugs.

More 'propaganda'

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-60555650

www.france24.com/en/europe/20220228-pushed-back-because-we-re-black-africans-stranded-at-ukraine-poland-border

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-refugees-racism-russia-invasion-b2024175.html

indianexpress.com/article/india/russia-ukraine-with-students-stuck-at-poland-border-india-looks-at-budapest-route-7793812/

@spittycup so the people you met from Eastern Europe were all nice to you, yet your opinion is that these countries are hostile and racist? Seems logical.
Also, why is it only ok to generalise about people from Eastern Europe, but not other countries?

My Polish friends’ families are opening their own houses to refugees, while you’re whining on mumsnet that they’re racist. And poor Bruno, ‘so shattered’ by it all. Just another let’s be nasty about Eastern European threads.

[quote RitaJosephina]@spittycup so the people you met from Eastern Europe were all nice to you, yet your opinion is that these countries are hostile and racist? Seems logical.
Also, why is it only ok to generalise about people from Eastern Europe, but not other countries?[/quote]
Way to be offended. @RitaJosephina

They're individual people, we're talking about the holistic treatment. Yes, anecdotes form other people.

The people I know are from the major cities, or went to international schools hence having more exposure to American culture etc. Not everyone in EE is like that are they. Likewise in the UK there's areas I wouldn't go to because non whites aren't welcome.

@WhathaveIdoneagain as did Polish people
twitter.com/nzekiev/status/1498367967041626120
twitter.com/abikedabiri/status/1498007955437932548

Wow, now we learn that American culture is superior.