Are we able to discuss the Black students trapped in Ukraine on here?

[EddyF]

I think I have read most threads on here about Ukraine/Russia but have not seen any discussions on this issue here.

I saw on TikTok (yup, TikTok has so much information/videos on what’s going on) that Jamaica has now managed to get its people out. It’s the majority of African students that are facing problems getting out. I’m wondering what African leaders are doing about it? A lot of the African-American blogs/comments are furious about this issue (rightly so).

@SlidingInto2022sDMs

No one has portrayed people from countries in Eastern Europe as bad and others as good

Although most of PPs here know that racism is prevalent in the whole Europe there are few comments implying that Eastern Europe is bad and West is good.
in the U.K. the obviously racist stares I get are from Eastern European people that haven’t been here that long, and not white British people. They bring their racist attitudes over here or they are not as diverse or welcoming to other non-white people as the more western European countries..

I think the difference that people are pointing at is the overt racism that some Eastern Europeans feel comfortable in displaying. In the UK culture, it is more covered but no less deplorable.

I am not sure what is worse. The blatant racism exhibited by some Ukrainian officials at the borders or the minimising of the blatant racism by some posters on this thread.
Very disappointing and shocking tbh

[quote AnotherUser123456789]@SlidingInto2022sDMs

No one has portrayed people from countries in Eastern Europe as bad and others as good

Although most of PPs here know that racism is prevalent in the whole Europe there are few comments implying that Eastern Europe is bad and West is good.
in the U.K. the obviously racist stares I get are from Eastern European people that haven’t been here that long, and not white British people. They bring their racist attitudes over here or they are not as diverse or welcoming to other non-white people as the more western European countries..[/quote]
It's a generalisation but it's not strictly untrue is it. People don't stop being racist as soon as they move countries and there is an attitude amongst minorities who are racist to eachother. It's not exclude to EE. Black people and Asian people can be racist but we're taking about the Ukraine situation now so that's why people are bring up these anecdotes.

@pizz
You're absolutely right, although I want to believe that some people change their views and attitude when they have a chance to live with people from different cultures. I just don't think that Western (as opposed to Eastern) Europe is as diverse or welcoming as some posters seem to think.

@Why2why

I think the difference that people are pointing at is the overt racism that some Eastern Europeans feel comfortable in displaying. In the UK culture, it is more covered but no less deplorable.

I agree.

AnotherUser And I take the quote as someone relaying their experience (and generalising). I highly doubt that if clarified, the poster would've meant 'West is good'. Obviously, that isn't so.

Now that the United Nations has expressed concern about racism and refugees from Ukraine, I hope we can move on from questioning how much it is happening:

metro.co.uk/2022/03/01/un-admits-ukrainian-refugees-have-faced-racism-on-poland-border-16198203/

Racism takes many forms. Just because we mention that in some countries it is more overt than others, it doesn't mean we are ignoring the racism that exists in this country. The other day I quoted the revolting comments made by Edward Leigh about people from Eastern Europe in the UK. There are millions more examples every day. We are still entitled to talk about racism in other countries while knowing that progress is still needed in the UK.

War - or in this instance invasions - create refugees. Putin is carrying out the same tactics in Ukraine as he did in Syria. They have huge effects on civilians. Why2Why highlighted how racism has power and privilege attached to it. It is legitimate to ask about how countries that border Ukraine deal with refugees. At the same time, we can highlight the wider lack of concern about refugees from other parts of the world.

Arguably we might not be where we are today had the West been more concerned about Syria.

"It’s ridiculous to blame Eastern European racism on the West.

And yes, racism in Eastern European is far more overt than it is in the West and very little progress has been made compared to the West."

(Technical issues...)

So, in the end it is not about racism and analysis?
Can we agree that it would be better to not talk about nations, cultures and regions you have no idea about? What is Eastern Europe anyway? Is East Germany Eastern Europe?
Half of Berlin? I guess the answer is no. And we can pretend that 'Eastern European' is not a nice, British way of saying poor and primitive but without this piece the picture will never be the whole.
You just can't understand what I am talking about because you only understand British colonisation of Asia and Africa.
Your reaction shows that while Brits sort of accepted that violence and physical abuse experienced by Asians and Africans was 'too much'. Accepting that there are complex consequences of colonialism is another thing, accepting that there are inequality and imbalance of power in Europe is yet another thing.

@deragod

"It’s ridiculous to blame Eastern European racism on the West.

And yes, racism in Eastern European is far more overt than it is in the West and very little progress has been made compared to the West."

(Technical issues...)

So, in the end it is not about racism and analysis?
Can we agree that it would be better to not talk about nations, cultures and regions you have no idea about? What is Eastern Europe anyway? Is East Germany Eastern Europe?
Half of Berlin? I guess the answer is no. And we can pretend that 'Eastern European' is not a nice, British way of saying poor and primitive but without this piece the picture will never be the whole.
You just can't understand what I am talking about because you only understand British colonisation of Asia and Africa.
Your reaction shows that while Brits sort of accepted that violence and physical abuse experienced by Asians and Africans was 'too much'. Accepting that there are complex consequences of colonialism is another thing, accepting that there are inequality and imbalance of power in Europe is yet another thing.

What is Asia or Africa anyway? Or do you only care about precision in relation to when people say Eastern Europe or Eastern Europeans but you are happy to say Asian and African?

What is Asia or Africa anyway?

Indeed. Been wanting to use that as a 'what if' when Eastern Europe was questioned but didn't think it was necessary until now. We all know Africa is a country to many people because they won't stop saying "Africa" when they mean a specific region in a specific country in Africa; and we know what "Africa" is often synonymous with to some people.

Let's apply the same precision everywhere. I'm definitely happy to.

You surpass yourself, Xenia. That was like listening to a deranged Daily Mail subscriber who has had a psychadelic reaction to their Gaviscon.

Is Xenia a nickname short for Xenophobia?

@Why2why

When I talk about the continent I use the name of the continent.
We can talk about French, Duch, Belgian, Spanish, Russian, British or Portuguese colonialism I'm specifics.

However, in British discourse Asian is used as Pakistani/Indian. Of course it's wrong and problematic.

@VladmirsPoutine

Is Xenia a nickname short for Xenophobia?

Yep!

@sadpapercourtesan

I do wonder whether the "oh, but it's probably not racism...maybe it's because they're men/non-citizens/it's Tuesday" brigade actually believe the excuses they are making. Or whether they are actually just racists, and it serves their agenda better to gaslight and obfuscate and make people doubt the evidence of their own eyes and ears.

this

[quote Why2why]@shola198978, I too often think that Mumsnet turns a blind eye to racism but are quick to respond to the cries of racists who claim to be the victims of people not putting up with their rubbish.

Mumsnet is slow to censor racist posts or ban racists.[/quote]
Agreed.

[quote deragod]@Why2why

When I talk about the continent I use the name of the continent.
We can talk about French, Duch, Belgian, Spanish, Russian, British or Portuguese colonialism I'm specifics.

However, in British discourse Asian is used as Pakistani/Indian. Of course it's wrong and problematic.[/quote]
You call people out for saying Eastern Europeans but then do the same when you say Asians and Africans.

I do not have a problem with the road description but you do, or at least only object when it’s applied to Eastern Europeans.

I was not talking about specific cultures or habits of any of the nations living on the continent.
I don't use 'Asian' when I want to talk specifically about Afghanistan.
I am more than aware that Africa is not a country. I did not suggested that Morocco and Uganda are the same.

@VladmirsPoutine

Is Xenia a nickname short for Xenophobia?

Probably

You surpass yourself, Xenia. That was like listening to a deranged Daily Mail subscriber who has had a psychadelic reaction to their Gaviscon.

Oh, I think that’s the best put down I ‘ve heard here.

@deragod

I was not talking about specific cultures or habits of any of the nations living on the continent. I don't use 'Asian' when I want to talk specifically about Afghanistan. I am more than aware that Africa is not a country. I did not suggested that Morocco and Uganda are the same.

What is your point really? Likewise no one suggested that Ukraine and Poland are the same countries.

There are many "definitions" of racism, from racism is believing one race is different to another race, to saving racism is based on power imbalance. Which version you choose reflects a lot on YOU.

More reporting of problems encountered www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/5/thats-poland-now-walk-arab-students-plight-out-of-ukraine