Are we able to discuss the Black students trapped in Ukraine on here?

[EddyF]

I think I have read most threads on here about Ukraine/Russia but have not seen any discussions on this issue here.

I saw on TikTok (yup, TikTok has so much information/videos on what’s going on) that Jamaica has now managed to get its people out. It’s the majority of African students that are facing problems getting out. I’m wondering what African leaders are doing about it? A lot of the African-American blogs/comments are furious about this issue (rightly so).

@flexitoast

Totally agree with you. My British born Nigerian neighbour was told to go back to her own country by a person of Easter European origin This happened in London . My colleague is a forty year old hospital consultant who was born in South London and is a decent upstanding individual who is seen as subhuman because of the colour of her skin. As a white woman, I am sick to death of racist apologist who have resorted in victim blaming and whataboutery rather than accept that there is blatant racism at play at the Ukrainian borders

I am a white Jewish woman and I have experienced racism from white and black people alike. I have had Jewish friends attacked and pushed off buses in their school uniform by black children from other schools. Any group can be racist. What is happening in Ukraine is horrific but it doesn't mean all Ukrainians or Eastern Europeans are racist anymore than the incidents I experienced prove that all black people are racist.

As a mixed race woman I’ve faced more racism from members of the Jewish community than other religions, especially in recent years. It’s pure whataboutery and not relevant to what the PP said. Nowhere did the PP say that all Ukrainians are racist.

I will just say that racism in Poland or Ukraine cannot be analysed the same way as British or American because different context.
At the same time, I will not backtrack - there is a lot of xenophobia. Being not white enough or too white is a well known theme for 'Easter Europeans'.
Some of you would be probably shocked that for example some Polish women were also direct victims of British colonialism.
In short, there is no racism without The West.

Btw. Now that embassies started to publish statements and pictures , verified people started to share their stories on Twitter and some analytics showed some discrepancies trend is changing again.
Now the focus is on LGBT, mainly trans women. That perhaps shows some involvement of Russian bots.

@UniCred1

There's a dedicated hotline for the foreign students evacuation established just a few hours ago:

+380934185684

(From Dmytro Kuleba's twitter)

If your sister is in touch with her coursemates who are still behind, worth passing to them.

This thread is 14 pages long and the debate is centred on some people trying their utmost to deny black and brown people their voice to speak up about racism.

Exactly why are some posters so invested in denying that people of colour are experiencing racism in Ukraine. What is the argument about?

There are reports and people documenting their experience of being racially abused and discriminated against while they too are trying to flee Putin’s terror. Why all this energy in trying to deny the truth?

Racism is one helluva thing.

I am embarrassed for these people on here who are coming across as supporters of racism. It’s embarrassing. You are embarrassing yourself with you undisguised racism.

No one said that racism doesn't exist in Ukraine. What I say:

1. Racism in 'Eastern Europe' has its source in Western Europe.
2. To portrait 'Eastern Europeans' as extremely racist in contrast to 'good' Westerners in xenophobic and has its roots in colonialism.
3. Most people here has no knowledge about the region but are first to talk.

So, the rule to not question ones experiences is not stretch to cover the east barbarians.

@dolphinsden

If countries like the UK, France and US news channels can broadcast with statements being made that the war in Ukraine is unacceptable because it's a European country with people with blonde hair and blue eyes then what hope is there in EE? Such statements were made that the war is wrong because the victims look like us and have Netflix and instagram accounts and it's not in some remote country anymore and such statements like "this isn't Afghanistan or Iraq, these are middle class white European people fleeing, not Syrians".

Even during a war, I'm not one bit surprised that the Black and Indian people and other nationals are being left out during the evacuation. If a life doesn't matter in another part of the world, that life wouldn't matter even if it's in a European country in the middle of a war zone. White Europe is racist. Christian West is racist because we've seen that when a war broke out in the middle of Europe in the 90's but the population was Muslim so it doesn't matter because Muslims are disposable just like the Black, Indian, Syrian, Afghan and Iraqi population because they aren't white with blue eyes. Bosnians and Kosovar's had blonde and blue eyes and were bang in the middle of Europe but they were Muslims this time so again they didn't make it to the white mans threshold for sympathy.

This 100% and thank you for bringing this up! I personally heard one such statement made on BBC by a formerly quite high ranking politician in the Ukrainian government and it made my blood boil. This is completely unacceptable. So the Afghans, Syrians, Africans are barbarians not worthy of the international attention and human treatment? I’m a white person with blue eyes for the reference.

@DeeCeeCherry

I am a white Jewish woman and I have experienced racism from white and black people alike. I have had Jewish friends attacked and pushed off buses in their school uniform by black children from other schools

Then you should know far better than to ignorantly compare Black people being persecuted and denied exit from a warzone in favour of Ukranians, to Black children - who incidentally are growing ip in a country that places Black people at the bottom of the heap - pushing some other children off a bus.

Your whole post screams "yeah but" validation of racism

Youve experienced racism from both Black and White people. Supposedly. That being the case, which group would negatively affect your life, career prospects etc more...?

Black people are racist too doesnt work in terms of world and society power balance. Its 2022 that favourite old line of racists lost impact ages ago.

Absolutely Some posters fail to understand the ‘real’ meaning of the word racism and what it entails. I am not going to give anyone here a lesson on racism. There are many avenues in which they can do so if they so wish However, I would have expected people who make whataboutery statements to have done their homework before commenting on threads regarding racism

@deragod

No one said that racism doesn't exist in Ukraine. What I say:

1. Racism in 'Eastern Europe' has its source in Western Europe.
2. To portrait 'Eastern Europeans' as extremely racist in contrast to 'good' Westerners in xenophobic and has its roots in colonialism.
3. Most people here has no knowledge about the region but are first to talk.

So, the rule to not question ones experiences is not stretch to cover the east barbarians.

I don’t know who is saying Westerners are good vs bad Eastern Europeans. It’s ridiculous to blame Eastern European racism on the West. And yes, racism in Eastern European is far more overt than it is in the West and very little progress has been made compared to the West.

However, racism is horrendous regardless of the degree of prevalence. There are people at the receiving end of racism. Lives destroyed, mental health destroyed, way of life destroyed, children and generation upon generations are damaged. Racism has a long lasting impact on people and their families.

What I have witness is that some Eastern Europeans who come to the UK are very openly racist to ethnic minorities here, even those born here, feeling they have greater rights than them because of they are white.

I know you wish it were not so but it is so.

@Lampzade, I could not agree more. When you read someone saying that Black people are racist, that white people face racism, you can only take a deep breath and smile. Such posters clearly have never been interested in understanding racism. They only care about arguing against its existence or to minimise Black peoples’ experience. If they truly wanted to understand what racism is they would have educated themselves. Instead they embarrass themselves and expose their ignorance. It’s sometimes too exhausting to bother to correct them.

Racism is not just bigotry or prejudice. It has power and privilege attached to it.

@Why2why

I am embarrassed for these people on here who are coming across as supporters of racism. It’s embarrassing. You are embarrassing yourself with you undisguised racism.

Read this, @deragod

@deragod

No one said that racism doesn't exist in Ukraine. What I say:

1. Racism in 'Eastern Europe' has its source in Western Europe.
2. To portrait 'Eastern Europeans' as extremely racist in contrast to 'good' Westerners in xenophobic and has its roots in colonialism.
3. Most people here has no knowledge about the region but are first to talk.

So, the rule to not question ones experiences is not stretch to cover the east barbarians.

You were asleep the whole of 2020? Everyone is against America don't be so ridiculous. Nobody thinks America is some paradise for Black people they were hanging black people from trees in living memory. _
_
American POP culture is led by Black people which is great, but you probably have something to say about that too.

Why2why
What I have witness is that some Eastern Europeans who come to the UK are very openly racist to ethnic minorities here, even those born here, feeling they have greater rights than them because of they are white

Exactly. It's common enough, and blatant, but because those who don't experience racism aren't impacted most wouldn't even know of or even if they did know, admit the high level of anti-Black racism we experience here from non-UK White, which adds to the general problem of racism here.

@Why2why

This thread is 14 pages long and the debate is centred on some people trying their utmost to deny black and brown people their voice to speak up about racism.

Exactly why are some posters so invested in denying that people of colour are experiencing racism in Ukraine. What is the argument about?

There are reports and people documenting their experience of being racially abused and discriminated against while they too are trying to flee Putin’s terror. Why all this energy in trying to deny the truth?

Racism is one helluva thing.

Louder for the people in the back.

I didn't realise Brits were quite so racist, but at the same in denial about it.

A lot of African countries abstained in the recent UN resolution deploring the invasion of Ukraine.

@Why2why

I am embarrassed for these people on here who are coming across as supporters of racism. It’s embarrassing. You are embarrassing yourself with you undisguised racism.

These people really need to look deeply at the root of their problem with other races and try to adjust their fixed mindsets. It's actually scary in 2022 and makes me wonder how many of the everyday people I interact with in real life hold these racist views!

[quote Why2why]@Lampzade, I could not agree more. When you read someone saying that Black people are racist, that white people face racism, you can only take a deep breath and smile. Such posters clearly have never been interested in understanding racism. They only care about arguing against its existence or to minimise Black peoples’ experience. If they truly wanted to understand what racism is they would have educated themselves. Instead they embarrass themselves and expose their ignorance. It’s sometimes too exhausting to bother to correct them.

Racism is not just bigotry or prejudice. It has power and privilege attached to it.[/quote]
This.

What I have witness is that some Eastern Europeans who come to the UK are very openly racist to ethnic minorities here, even those born here, feeling they have greater rights than them because of they are white.

Exactly!!

@DeeCeeCherry

Why2why What I have witness is that some Eastern Europeans who come to the UK are very openly racist to ethnic minorities here, even those born here, feeling they have greater rights than them because of they are white

Exactly. It's common enough, and blatant, but because those who don't experience racism aren't impacted most wouldn't even know of or even if they did know, admit the high level of anti-Black racism we experience here from non-UK White, which adds to the general problem of racism here.

Exactly. It's common enough, and blatant, but because those who don't experience racism aren't impacted most wouldn't even know of or even if they did know, admit the high level of anti-Black racism we experience here from non-UK White, which adds to the general problem of racism here. Oh goodness!!! This is actually going a bit too far! So not only EE is the worst racist place on Earth they are even responsible for all systematic racism in UK as they are not just horrible people but also very recent immigrants are in position of power in UK!!! Sorry if I misunderstood but that's my understanding of your post

No one said that racism doesn't exist in Ukraine. What I say:
1. Racism in 'Eastern Europe' has its source in Western Europe.

The source doesn't matter. What matters is that racism exists in Eastern European countries AS WELL AS in Western European countries.

2. To portrait 'Eastern Europeans' as extremely racist in contrast to 'good' Westerners in xenophobic and has its roots in colonialism.

No one has portrayed people from countries in Eastern Europe as bad and others as good. The point is that there are people who are racists in those countries AS WELL AS people who're racists in other countries.

3. Most people here has no knowledge about the region but are first to talk.
So, the rule to not question ones experiences is not stretch to cover the east barbarians.

I don't know what this is in reference to. We're talking about anti-Black racism and this time, it's currently happening in Ukraine, an Eastern European country. So of course we'll be speaking about Ukrain specifically and Eastern Europe in general.

I think it's become tiresome trying to assure some people that we know NAWPALT (Not All White People Are Like That) and assuage their feelings of defensiveness. You can't shut people down on this, no matter the number of rebuttals used, including the "Black people can be racist too", etc posts. I mean, come on! Really? Where are these "racist Black people" in the situation at hand or is deflection the aim here?

what is an 'east barbarian'?

I have no clue either. Didn't bother to question it because the whole point is irrelevant to the discussion at hand anyway. No one has said AEEALT (EE- Eastern Europeans) but people keep trying to make that point.

@DeeCeeCherry

Why2why What I have witness is that some Eastern Europeans who come to the UK are very openly racist to ethnic minorities here, even those born here, feeling they have greater rights than them because of they are white

Exactly. It's common enough, and blatant, but because those who don't experience racism aren't impacted most wouldn't even know of or even if they did know, admit the high level of anti-Black racism we experience here from non-UK White, which adds to the general problem of racism here.

This. I agree.

@MrsBillyNoJagNoMates, you are right. This situation is going too far - black and brown people should not have to be facing such abuse. It is going too far and it has being going too far for far too long.

So you are right, this racism against ethnic minorities is going too far.

I agree with everyone talking about the anti-Black racism in the UK from non-UK white people. It isn't only in other countries.

I know many people (including myself), and have heard from more, who've experienced overt racism from some people of Eastern European heritage AS WELL AS people from other parts of the world. It happens...A LOT.

As I wrote before, once some people see anyone with brown skin, they must feel a surge of power or something in their veins and this gives them the audacity to think/speak/act crazy, believing themselves to be (aligned with) the "top dogs".