Are we able to discuss the Black students trapped in Ukraine on here?

[EddyF]

I think I have read most threads on here about Ukraine/Russia but have not seen any discussions on this issue here.

I saw on TikTok (yup, TikTok has so much information/videos on what’s going on) that Jamaica has now managed to get its people out. It’s the majority of African students that are facing problems getting out. I’m wondering what African leaders are doing about it? A lot of the African-American blogs/comments are furious about this issue (rightly so).

@ginghamstarfish

I am only surprised to learn that there are numbers of Asian and Black students in Eastern European countries, as let's be quite honest, it has surely been known for a long time that they are not as diverse or welcoming to other non-white people as the more western European countries.

This has been explained several times. Money. Living costs. Expenses. Not everybody has the luxury to live and study in countries where they are "welcomed".

[quote spittycup]@RitaJosephina

What prejudice? Your seriously sitting there thinking "this is so racist" as your given free food, told you have nice hair and skin tone, and are charged the equivalent of £2 extra because people want a bit more money from tourists? There's no pleasing you.

As @kingat said, don't go if it's so bad[/quote]
Do you have problems with reading comprehension? You don't know anything about my situation and you think you can go ahead with your ironic remarks? I don't have blue eyes and blond hair. My grandfather is from Mongolia, so I don't look like tall blond Russian model. Did you intentionally skip the part where I was ignored in Japan when I tried to order food even though I speak Japanese? People would move their seat when I sat next to them. And I lived in this country, I wasn't a tourist. Also, last time I checked Japan was never colonised, so no 'leftovers from imperialism'
By I would definitely go back as I don't judge whole nations by isolated incidents. I met many great people from all around the world who are not prejudiced like some people on this thread and didn't judge me by where I come from.

@sadpapercourtesan

There have been a couple of threads about it. It should be openly discussed that Africans, Indians and other POC are being mistreated and prevented from making their way to safety. There's plenty of evidence of it happening. I have no patience for the apologists who twist themselves into pretzels trying to argue that it isn't racism, or that even if it is we shouldn't be allowing it to detract from the Heroic Little Ukraine narrative.

I think what Putin is doing in Ukraine is appalling. I think ordinary Ukrainians are putting up an impressive resistance, and I am very afraid for their safety and their future. None of this prevents me from finding active, blatant racism unacceptable. It's possible to hold both of those emotional spaces at the same time. There were some proper boneheads on the other threads I saw (and a few racists, too).

This It is just a shame that those who are appealing for humanity in Ukraine are unable to show that same humanity to African, Caribbean and Asian people. In the midst of such terror they still have the time to be racist. Criticising the governments of these countries or the black people concerned does not negate the fact that these people have been victims of blatant racism The sad thing is that some black people now have taken a neutral stance towards the conflict as they are disturbed by what they have seen on social media.

@Bonheurdupasse

There's a lot of Russian sponsored trolls on the Internet spreading misinformation (see - Reddit has "quarantined" the Russia sub because of that) and they have picked up on some such incidents and making it look like this is way more widespread than in reality. If you look you can see first hand testimonials from black people in the situation talking about the warm treatment they're received- they should be given credibility too.

Some students have said that they had received a warm welcome from Romanian and Polish people once they had actually passed the borders. The issue is with the Ukrainian officials who won’t even let them get on the trains to cross over to these countries. I actually saw a pregnant woman who had to walk to the Polish border.

It seems to be piecemeal as some have got through and others not. There is also the complication that at some points they were letting ukrainians over the border but not any other foreigner whatever their colour - in other words a legal not a racism issue. In the same way we might allow Afghans into the UK after the withdrawal there but not Pakistanis or Australians.

The Russian troll factories are in full flow on all forms of social media. They are working hard to cause ill feelings amongst the West and particularly about Ukraine. They know that right-thinking people hate racism so it's a good topic for them to use. I'm not saying it's all invented but I'd be very cautious about believing every report.

@RitaJosephina

I'm not reading all that but you seem dead set on excusing racism, hiding behind 'I'm against xenophobia'. Nobody here is xenophobic, there's been a lot of thoughtful balanced responses. None from you, though, just excuses and 'well they shouldn't be there if it's so bad'.

You don't have to be white to be in denial. You not having blue eyes proves nothing.

Racism exists. It's more common when you stand out. Like in places where there are no black people and there's no exposure. Get over it. Nobody is saying all x are racist. Nobody is saying it doesn't happen in the U.K.

But if the shoe fits.

@TooTiredToSleepRightNow

Ofcourse these white Eastern Europeans can be racist. Being under attack doesn’t change what they believe. Or do we want to deny that so we carry on believing how amazing and super hero like they are, don’t want these annoying black people coming along and shitting on their parade? I don’t understand why else so many white people are in denial about this or minimising it so much. Those countries are extremely racist. I mean, in the U.K. the obviously racist stares I get are from Eastern European people that haven’t been here that long, and not white British people. They seem to think I’ve arrived here on the banana boat, despite my parents having arrived many years ago paying their taxes etc but nope, they are very much like “how dare YOU come over here”. It’s quite pathetic really. What’s more pathetic is people coming onto these boards and denying it’s happening and blaming the Russians, that’s sinking pretty low really. I would give everyone respect if they accepted it to be a massive problem and condemning it but noooo those black people are making it up, those Russians are spreading propaganda. These threads are such an eye opener.

Totally agree with you. My British born Nigerian neighbour was told to go back to her own country by a person of Easter European origin This happened in London . My colleague is a forty year old hospital consultant who was born in South London and is a decent upstanding individual who is seen as subhuman because of the colour of her skin. As a white woman, I am sick to death of racist apologist who have resorted in victim blaming and whataboutery rather than accept that there is blatant racism at play at the Ukrainian borders

Unfortunately Ukraine does has a reputation for being racist (as does much of Eastern Europe). I remember during the Poland/Ukraine Euros that POC were even advised not to go as they would suffer abuse and attacks. So I'm not entirely surprised at what's going on at the stations.

Ukrainian and Russians are the most racist people I have met. As a brown person I would never allow my children to study there. I am not surprised what they are doing to the students at the border. They don't consider us as equals even if you are 10 times more successful.

Oh yeah, and Africans are "racist/xenophobic" (because people living in poverty bump up prices a few pounds for westerners). And because they look at (and up to) white people

BUT

There is no racism in Eastern Europe. How dare anyone say such a thing, abhorrent.

How does that one work out?

[quote spittycup]@RitaJosephina

I'm not reading all that but you seem dead set on excusing racism, hiding behind 'I'm against xenophobia'. Nobody here is xenophobic, there's been a lot of thoughtful balanced responses. None from you, though, just excuses and 'well they shouldn't be there if it's so bad'.

You don't have to be white to be in denial. You not having blue eyes proves nothing. [/quote]
This. Just another one who is refusing to acknowledge the racism going on, and is coming out with pathetic excuses for it.

@spittycup
I'm not excusing racism, I said that several times. I agreed that there were racist incidents involved at the Ukrainian border. What I object is people saying 'what did you expect? These EE countries are extremely racist'. No, these countries aren't racist, some people in this countries are racist. So are people in other countries, labelled here as 'diverse and welcoming'. Let's discuss those incidents, condemn then, spread information about the help we can offer. But I'm not going to discuss that with you anymore, because you can't even go back and check what I wrote and put words in my mouth to fit your argument.
Meanwhile, there is a map of Polish people offering their spare bedrooms to ALL refugees regardless of their nationality.
Contrast that with this guy: twitter.com/EdwardLeighMP/status/1498666327132844044

I'm so glad that anti-blackness is being seen a lot more and talked about. It's a sensitive issue which will trigger some people but it will not be shut down.

I have so much sympathy for ANYONE of any race going through war and all the evils happening in every part of our world, especially children. Their plight breaks my heart more than I can ever put into words (I have no need to state the action I take) and what I want to say about Putin and his cronies is best left in my heart!

There's no denying that anti-blackness runs rampant in every corner of the world, among every group. That doesn't mean that every single person is anti-black. It wouldn't even make sense to say that.

That said, I see it this way: everyone in Ukraine, regardless of race, is going through the effects of this senseless war (as all war is!) but only black/non-white people are going through that AND the effects of racism even in the hands of those they're suffering alongside.

White people in Ukraine are suffering from the war; Black people in Ukraine are suffering from the war AND fucking racism/anti-blackness on top of it. There's no break from anti-blackness for Black people because you cannot "blend in", even in the midst of fucking war!

If you can't or don't want to get it, DFO please and thanks. Let those who do get it talk about it. God damn!

And my post isn't addressing any particular person, incase someone tries to take it personally. I've just posted generally because I've been following this thread and the other one.

I have no issues calling someone out specifically if I wanted to but that's not what I've done here. Just saying.

everyone in Ukraine, regardless of race, is going through the effects of this senseless war (as all war is!) but only black/non-white people are going through that AND the effects of racism even in the hands of those they're suffering alongside

Absolutely. As I said on another thread it's staggering how even in the most dire emergency situations white people STILL have the time and space to be racist, on top of everything they're dealing with. Always have to kick down, don't they?

the treatment of BAME people in ukraine has been awful and theres no excuse for that. but its a myth that eastern europe is more racist than the rest of the world (although ukraine scores high in racist countries' ranking). theres lots of anecdotes and overheard stories from Black people that visited those countries but statistically its the same shit everywhere. - worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-racist-countries

There's certainly a stratospheric amount of xenophobia between ethnic groups but that's easily explained by white supremacy. You'll notice in every 'ethnic' culture your proximity to 'whiteness' elevates your position immensely. There's a reason why skin bleaching creams in Africa and Asia are billion-dollar industries and it has nothing to do with people wanting to smoothen their pores.

Always have to kick down, don't they?

Yes, there must be something about having light or dark brown skin that gives some people the extra zeal they need to think, "No, you're not one of us. We may be going through shit but at least, we're not you. We're still better than you and we'll let you know it one way or the other".

@SlidingInto2022sDMs

"And we have more right to live than you do too."

Indeed. @xfgdhfgnhkk007

"And you mustn't talk about it. Just sit/stand there and take it or you'll be accused of sowing division or playing the race card".

As if the treatment or lack of didn't start the division in the first place. You mustn't react or else your reaction will be taken as the problem. Gaslighting 101.

@SlidingInto2022sDMs

I'm so glad that anti-blackness is being seen a lot more and talked about. It's a sensitive issue which will trigger some people but it will not be shut down.

I have so much sympathy for ANYONE of any race going through war and all the evils happening in every part of our world, especially children. Their plight breaks my heart more than I can ever put into words (I have no need to state the action I take) and what I want to say about Putin and his cronies is best left in my heart!

There's no denying that anti-blackness runs rampant in every corner of the world, among every group. That doesn't mean that every single person is anti-black. It wouldn't even make sense to say that.

That said, I see it this way: everyone in Ukraine, regardless of race, is going through the effects of this senseless war (as all war is!) but only black/non-white people are going through that AND the effects of racism even in the hands of those they're suffering alongside.

White people in Ukraine are suffering from the war; Black people in Ukraine are suffering from the war AND fucking racism/anti-blackness on top of it. There's no break from anti-blackness for Black people because you cannot "blend in", even in the midst of fucking war!

If you can't or don't want to get it, DFO please and thanks. Let those who do get it talk about it. God damn!

This

As if the treatment or lack of didn't start the division in the first place. You mustn't react or else your reaction will be taken as the problem. Gaslighting 101

100%. What also gets me is ppl saying "now is not the time" to highlight any racism because there's a war on. Err.. irony much?!