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Original poster

Are we able to discuss the Black students trapped in Ukraine on here?

421 replies

EddyF · 01/03/2022 17:55

I think I have read most threads on here about Ukraine/Russia but have not seen any discussions on this issue here.

I saw on TikTok (yup, TikTok has so much information/videos on what’s going on) that Jamaica has now managed to get its people out. It’s the majority of African students that are facing problems getting out. I’m wondering what African leaders are doing about it? A lot of the African-American blogs/comments are furious about this issue (rightly so).

OP posts:
emuloc · 02/03/2022 16:19

@SlidingInto2022sDMs

I'm so glad that anti-blackness is being seen a lot more and talked about. It's a sensitive issue which will trigger some people but it will not be shut down.

I have so much sympathy for ANYONE of any race going through war and all the evils happening in every part of our world, especially children. Their plight breaks my heart more than I can ever put into words (I have no need to state the action I take) and what I want to say about Putin and his cronies is best left in my heart!

There's no denying that anti-blackness runs rampant in every corner of the world, among every group. That doesn't mean that every single person is anti-black. It wouldn't even make sense to say that.

That said, I see it this way: everyone in Ukraine, regardless of race, is going through the effects of this senseless war (as all war is!) but only black/non-white people are going through that AND the effects of racism even in the hands of those they're suffering alongside.

White people in Ukraine are suffering from the war; Black people in Ukraine are suffering from the war AND fucking racism/anti-blackness on top of it. There's no break from anti-blackness for Black people because you cannot "blend in", even in the midst of fucking war!

If you can't or don't want to get it, DFO please and thanks. Let those who do get it talk about it. God damn!

Well said. You have really summed it up, how it is for black people. No escape or let up, from racism and the effects of it.
SlidingInto2022sDMs · 02/03/2022 16:31

Yes it's mind-boggling when people say "now is not the time" as if the conversation just came from nowhere.

If it wasn't happening, we wouldn't be talking about it. If it happens, we talk about it. If you don't want to hear it, then you may need to have a word with anyone responsible for it happening in the first place. But trying to shut people down from talking about what they're currently facing is preposterous. It's not hard to understand.

We won't shut up and take it to appease some people. We're not going to the back seat.

emuloc · 02/03/2022 16:36

Exactly when should we be talking about the unfair treatment of poc then? I am glad it is being talked about, what is happening to these people, while at the same time I am so sick and tired of racism.

SlidingInto2022sDMs · 02/03/2022 16:42

I hear you, @emuloc! I feel the same. It drains the soul.

Why2why · 02/03/2022 16:43

@SlidingInto2022sDMs

Yes it's mind-boggling when people say "now is not the time" as if the conversation just came from nowhere.

If it wasn't happening, we wouldn't be talking about it. If it happens, we talk about it. If you don't want to hear it, then you may need to have a word with anyone responsible for it happening in the first place. But trying to shut people down from talking about what they're currently facing is preposterous. It's not hard to understand.

We won't shut up and take it to appease some people. We're not going to the back seat.

Why should we? Has the world learned nothing about racism from George Floyd’s murder?

Yes black lives do matter. It’s not a conversation to be had after other lives are protected.

xfgdhfgnhkk007 · 02/03/2022 16:43

[quote Why2why]I love this.

metro.co.uk/2022/03/01/if-now-isnt-the-time-to-talk-about-racism-in-ukraine-when-is-16196346/amp/[/quote]
Dr Shola Mos-Shogbamimu is great isn't she, so resolutely unafraid to speak her mind.

To me, it is clear that prioritising whiteness made this about race from the start and we have every right to respond to it with our objection

Absolutely. THEY made it about race in the first place, not us black and brown people. And it's like we're not allowed to notice.

emuloc · 02/03/2022 17:00

As posters have said quite rightly, if these outrageous incidents were not happening, then we would not be talking about it. But it has, so we will discuss it, and if it upsets the racist apologist, then its tough.

BelleHathor · 02/03/2022 17:19

Absolutely. THEY made it about race in the first place, not us black and brown people. And it's like we're not allowed to notice.
The Media coverage has really opened people's eyes to the hypocrisy, even for people who are supposedly "inclusive". Some things that reporter's have said openly are a disgrace.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=2z9UyPurVok

spittycup · 02/03/2022 17:41

I get that it's more less common to see white people as refugees but that reporter is infuriating. So dismissive of Middle Eastern conflicts, bearing in mind not only was there war, but also slavery, genocide, sexual abuse, and all horrors imaginable.

But it's been going on for years so he's bored of it now. And they're uncivilised so that's just what they should expect. Idiot, even when 'choosing his words carefully the mask slips'.

deragod · 02/03/2022 18:41

@spittycup you are xenophobic.
You just siad yourself that being influenced by American culture is to be civilised.
We had here people who have no clue about the region and its history but are first to comment from their west, anglosaxon position (westplaining).
It's funny how even language shows that. You are able to distinguish between France and Germany. But that's the limitation everything further south east from Germany is Eastern Europe. No unique cultures, no specific languages just the stupid mass (some of them had a chance to be civilised with American sitcoms though).

How reporter shocked that people he believes are inferior are in fact not that dissimilar to him reflects badly at Ukrainians?
Do you know anything about Polish Ukrainian relations and how complicated it is? And why certain procedures where already in place?

What I see here is the same problem that Britain has with antisemitism (BBC too).
Jews are too white to be victims.
Ukrainians or Poles are too white to be victims too. "Eastern Europeans" for Brits are the fake mirror. There is a lot of projection and back patting - at least we are not as bad as them!

WhathaveIdoneagain · 02/03/2022 19:19

[quote deragod]www.nytimes.com/2015/11/04/opinion/who-invented-fortress-europe.html[/quote]
It is behind paywall @deragod

Trainbear · 02/03/2022 19:22

If black non Ukrainian citizens are being prevented then yes it is a Bad Thing.

spittycup · 02/03/2022 20:26

This reply has been deleted

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spittycup · 02/03/2022 20:32

It's really high level thinking for you though. Less exposure = more racism. Ok? I have made no comment on culture beyond the fact that there are lots of black people as actors and singers.

Hiding behind xenophobia to ignore real concerns being raised. Real racism on video.

SlidingInto2022sDMs · 02/03/2022 21:01

Anyone can be a victim and many groups have been victims of others, and still are. The world is full of evil and sadly, that may never stop as long as greed, hatred and the quest for power rule the world. I keep saying this and I stand with all victims, regardless of race.

I don't think anyone is "too white to be a victim" and I doubt anyone is saying that.

What people are saying is that when it comes to Black people, everyone and their mama - victim or not - are quite happy and eager to assume the role of oppressor (Generally speaking). That shit needs to be called out everytime and I stand with Black people there.

HikingforScenery · 02/03/2022 21:07

If Black and Brown people are now being allowed to get on trains, etc and flee, then that’s great news. That’s what should’ve happened in the first place,
It’s horrific to think that while going through such a traumatising time, some still found the energy to treat others so appallingly.

flexitoast · 02/03/2022 21:44

Totally agree with you. My British born Nigerian neighbour was told to go back to her own country by a person of Easter European origin This happened in London . My colleague is a forty year old hospital consultant who was born in South London and is a decent upstanding individual who is seen as subhuman because of the colour of her skin. As a white woman, I am sick to death of racist apologist who have resorted in victim blaming and whataboutery rather than accept that there is blatant racism at play at the Ukrainian borders

I am a white Jewish woman and I have experienced racism from white and black people alike. I have had Jewish friends attacked and pushed off buses in their school uniform by black children from other schools. Any group can be racist. What is happening in Ukraine is horrific but it doesn't mean all Ukrainians or Eastern Europeans are racist anymore than the incidents I experienced prove that all black people are racist.

deragod · 02/03/2022 21:58

@SlidingInto2022sDMs
'Jews don't count'is a short analysis showing that indeed there are people who are too white to deserve compassion.

People who keep asking in every thread what about Middle East/Syria seem to have this mindset too.

@HikingforScenery

First groups of Indian students are already flying home....

DeeCeeCherry · 02/03/2022 22:00

I am a white Jewish woman and I have experienced racism from white and black people alike. I have had Jewish friends attacked and pushed off buses in their school uniform by black children from other schools

Then you should know far better than to ignorantly compare Black people being persecuted and denied exit from a warzone in favour of Ukranians, to Black children - who incidentally are growing ip in a country that places Black people at the bottom of the heap - pushing some other children off a bus.

Your whole post screams "yeah but" validation of racism

Youve experienced racism from both Black and White people. Supposedly. That being the case, which group would negatively affect your life, career prospects etc more...?

Black people are racist too doesnt work in terms of world and society power balance. Its 2022 that favourite old line of racists lost impact ages ago.

UniversalAunt · 02/03/2022 22:00

@flexitoast, I have not taken exception to your post because there has been a considerable misunderstanding of the comments I made.

I am not an anti-Semite.There is no anti-Semitic intention or content in my post.

The point I made is that there is a long & considerable history of anti-Semitism & pogroms in the Ukraine (& throughout EE) & that it is remarkable that both a small Jewish population remains & that a Jewish president has been elected in Ukraine. In your post, you have concurred with the points I made.

How you have inferred that Jews are responsible for any of what is going on at this moment is a massive leap without foundation in reality or from my comments.

UniversalAunt · 02/03/2022 22:12

@DeeCeeCherry please do not minimise @flexitoast experience & that of many Jews in the UK. There are overt & direct anti-Semitic attacks taking place in public spaces, including public transport, in the UK & across Europe.

It is not ‘some other people’, it is children who by their school uniforms are known to be Jews.

The use of ‘supposedly’ is dismissive.

Bellalastrasse · 02/03/2022 22:35

@DeeCeeCherry

‘who incidentally are growing ip in a country that places Black people at the bottom of the heap - ‘

Think the traveller community might have something to say about that. Shocking mortality rates for travellers in U.K.

And the Roma (women) and children are getting out of Ukraine now whilst Roma men fight.

DeeCeeCherry · 02/03/2022 22:48

UniversalAunt
@DeeCeeCherry please do not minimise @flexitoast experience & that of many Jews in the UK

Let me fix that for you:

Please do not minimise the experiences of Black people right now endangered by both war AND anti-Black racism in Ukraine.

Too many are are unable and unwilling to stick to the point, without deflection from the topic - which is anti-Black racism.

When this is pointed out, the usual gaslighting happens hence we have 'Im White and experience racism too' (aka so what the hell are Black people complaining about) and 'Black people are racist too'

All are forms of anti-Black racism.

Don't talk to me about "minimising of experiences" when you've already read 'Black people are racist too' in response to anti-Black racism in Ukraine

Bottom line is, any and every non-Black community will line up to deny the existence of anti-Black racism. & centre themselves as victims too specifically for purposes of denial and justification of anti-Black racism.

There's your unified common denominator.