to refuse subsidised private school fees

[itsbritneybitch92]

My SO and I are turning 30 and are finally planning a family (as we’ve been together since we were 18!). We are not quite on the same page about state vs private education.

We are both in a well respected profession with competitive university entry requirements, 5-6 years of university study and a decade of further training and postgraduate exams. So we have both achieved very well in life. Our household income is high (we earn the same) but nowhere near enough to afford two children in private school alongside other necessities. We are in London.

I grew up in London a single parent family in a 1 bedroom council flat. My mum was a nurse and worked 6-7 days a week, even through school holidays until I was 18. I went to state schools.

My SO grew up in the largest detached house in the surrey hills that I have ever set foot in with a parent who is the CEO of a major finance company. You can imagine the rest from here.

As I grew up relatively “poor”, I like to work for things myself. I’m not a fan of handouts. If I want something, I save hard for however long, I see how I can make it fit into my budget. If my SO wants something, his parents will offer it to him. And why shouldn’t they? They’ve worked so hard to provide for their son. My SO never asks for anything though.

His parents recently helped us with a £350k deposit on a £950k house. I added £25k into this which was my entire life savings since I was born. I felt so uneasy with this at first but honestly his parents are amazing, they treat me like their daughter and I was grateful for this massive jump onto the property ladder for our future family. But SO and I agreed that this would be only handout from his family.

Now, his parents are offering a lump sum to cover 50% of private school fees for two children until university. We haven’t calculated how much this is as it varies by school but from what I have googled, one term can be £30k.

SO and I aren’t sure what to do. I want to refuse, SO wants to accept for a few years. He feels that a good education is guaranteed in a private school. I feel that we can find a good state school and supplement with extracurriculars and memories e.g. holidays etc. 50% of private school fees for two children until 18 for us will still be a massive stretch. Also it’s silly to put kids in private school then suddenly switch them to state school.

I don’t like the idea of our children growing up thinking that their grandparents paid for their housing and their education and also, my mother can offer very little. It feels unbalanced. I also really don’t want snobby kids.

Similar background and post-grad quals as you. Just want to come on and support you in this strange subsection of the internet that thinks everyone goes to private school though really only 6% do. You know that private schools are not necessary. The teaching is not generally better, what you're paying for is smaller classes and wealthier kids. Tbh with £950k home you've probably got the latter in your catchment unless you're central central London where social housing sits cheek by jowl with your housing and catchments are tiny. You know your kids will probably be fine without private school. You are not wrong. Don't waste too much energy bickering with your husband now, see what the situation is when your kids are of school age. He may be bowled over by the local primary or the kids may have disabilities that need specialist support. Or you may change your mind based on the kids attitude and the local offer.

Say thank you to the in laws for their kind offer. You're planning at the moment to go state, but of course you don't know how schools will change by the time the (unborn) kids are using them or what specific needs the children may have. This means you can always change your mind if you find your particular kids aren't thriving.

I think you are being unfair about all private school kids being snobby. The ethos of the individual school will have an impact on that. And of course, your approach to parenting.

My DC's school has 50% of children with some form of bursary/scholarship assistance with fees. It therefore has a relatively diverse intake. It is far from snobby, and the school has a strong ethos of giving back to the local community, as well as making sure the students know how lucky they are.

I think you should maybe take a closer look at your local state schools and some possible private schools just for comparison. You seem to be treating all private schools the same without really having any experience.

Childcare will be provided by his parents 2 days a week

You're really getting your money's worth out of his parents aren't you?

Why are you not getting married before starting a family is my question?Do we live in the 50s?

To be fair, if you aren't married, then you are not as well protected financially in the event that things go wrong.

But I think the OP is married

Your figures for prep schools are a bit on high side. Why not do state till 8 and see how your children are progressing before making the final decision? Also, having taken the money once from your in-laws, it’s a bit late to have a moral wobble about handouts.

@santasnothere

Why are you not getting married before starting a family is my question?

Why don't you read the OPs comments before bursting in with your opinion is my question.

Depends on local schools and the personalities of your children, I guess, but I’d view money thrown at private school fees just for the sake of it as money wasted, too, OP. Basically, your PILs are wanting you to pay 50% of the fees from your own money so that they can contribute the other 50% towards something you didn’t want in the first place. It would be a very generous offer if you were desperate and your children were floundering in an awful school where they were being bullied, but a rather unhelpful one when it takes you down a path you are not currently interested in following. Besides, with rules on student loans for university changing, meaning future students will be paying off loans into their 60s and potentially making it in the interests of the better off to pay university fees upfront, I would favour saving the cash for occasions when it is guaranteed to be helpful (eg helping buy your first home, or pay for further education, or possibly private education if something has actually gone wrong with the state option), not spending it on something neither obviously needed nor particularly wanted.

Whatever you decide to do you need to stop with the “snobby kids” stereotype

Yes, indeed. My son's school stomped heavily on idea that pupils there should think they were better than pupils at state schools.

The fact that you're not even pregnant yet and you're already planning your two children's schooling??!

Do you have to decide now?

If you are blessed with two children (I do hope you are) then you need to take them on an individual basis. My ds was soooo lazy and easily distracted. I sent him to private secondary school as I knew the local secondary comp wouldn't get the best out of him. He then transferred to a state college, which was best for him.
It really is on a case by case basis.

Your local state schools might be good now but by the time your (so far non existent) children are ready to attend it might've gone down hill. The same with the private school. Who knows?

All that to say it's too early to be making these decisions.

I wouldn’t be offering £350k deposits and private school fees to a DIL who was of the opinion that my DS's upbringing had made him (and DD) and his contemporaries snobby tbh.

Way too soon.

Wait until you have dc. Then wait until you know how the local schools (in which your dc could get a place in their school year) compare - it changes year on year. Then wait until you think you know which school would best suit that dc.

Then decide if you need to ask for money.

(In my town the local outstanding comps regularly out perform the only private school, which is often the third choice of families whose dc weren't in the good schools' catchment that year.)

PS why are doctors so often coy about their job on MN?

So you have a £1 million pound house that was funded by over 1/3 from his parents.

Yes accept the fees. The state will only get it when they die otherwise. They are being sensible reduce assets when they have alive.

There is no difference to this and a GP paying for swimming lessons -all relative.

Will help the parents with inheritance tax . Great start for your children .
Bring them up well grounded . Tough world out there . Lots of grandparents help with school fees and be happy they are able to help.
I also know of other family members who chip in to help with education
These are high earners who help their siblings .

You say they’re lovely in-laws, and as long as there are no strings attached then you would be an idiot to refuse!

As for state primary then private secondary, daft idea, as they will make friends at primary level who may go on to same secondary level

My ds went to a different secondary school to his friends and hasn’t made close friendships at his new school in all the 5 years he’s been there

All his friends are from his primary school in our local area. Which is good from a pick up and drop off point of view but I wished he had made friends at school because it would have improved his experience there, and who knows his performance

This is for your children not you. I would accept

We are married. Childcare will be provided by his parents 2 days a week as I will work 3 days a week. Maternity leave will be as short as possible. The house is owned jointly now that we are married (recently).
You’re very keen on planning, but you aren’t doing much risk minded planning here.
-You haven’t yet conceived your first. You live in london and his parents in surrey? There are many outcomes where with the best will in the world they are too old/ tired to do 2 days of childcare a week.
-you may want your mat leave as short as possible. Baby may arrive and you can’t bear leaving them, or/and are physically wrecked. When quite young I worked with an older man whose wife had been top tier law firm, very career minded, and he said how their first baby arrived and she tossed that all out the window. I’ve always remembered that, snd since seen it time and time again. I did want to return to full time work as planned as it happened, although needed a decent maternity leave to feel human and also wanted a decent amount of time with my babies, but I always had in the planning how we would cope if I didn’t feel that way.
-you may realise your child needs the extra support, or that the local school has gone downhill and is terrible. Leave your options open. Every child is different. My siblings and I pretty much went to different schools each.
-take the money if it works for you. Don’t be an inverse snob. You can’t really be a high earner if 25k is your lifelong savings at 30, so I think your background must be seriously impacting your thinking here. If someone knocked at your door when you moved into your new house with a welcome plate of cookies and you can’t bake to save your life would you refuse it? Your in laws are happy to help.
-The snobbery element is worth thinking about it. I’m not in the uk but while if all goes as planned my dc will go private I would prefer not to send them to the most expensive schools around to avoid a too much money environment.

Sounds like the lump sum offer is to avoid inheritance tax and help the grandchildren achieve.

Have you tried discussing with them the possibility of using it for whatever will most benefit the children? Keeping it in case they need specialist (maybe high level sports) or private education but making it clear to the grandparents that the default is going to be state. If it doesn't get spent on school or sixth form then it can support them to leave uni debt free and do higher ed if they want to. If they don't take that path then they have a house deposit that gives them the freedom to follow the career path they love regardless of pay.

Surely they just want to help their future grandchildren is whichever way will benefit them the most. They just need confidence that you will intervene at the most appropriate point to spend it wisely where it will give the greatest return.

Make it clear that the state school option means you will have spare cash for holidays etc so they know you will not be spending "their" money on those experiences.

Grandparents paying for grandchildren’s school fees is a very efficient way of avoiding paying inheritance tax on that portion of their money

Since you are probably going to inherit money from them when they die, why not receive it in a more tax efficient way?

Look into your local schools.

Private isn't necessarily better but it can be if your local state schools aren't up to scratch.

If your child has special needs then a private school might be the best choice.

It will depend very much on the schools near you. The state ones may be fantastic or crap. The private ones may also be. You'll have to consider all the circumstances and options and make the best decision for your child(ren).

I have to say that your "principles" are a bit grating. Perhaps you might consider that a £950k house might buy you into the catchment area of a fantastic state school and that it's therefore private by stealth. Near me, there is just such an area. One side of the area contains million pound plus gated mansions. The other side has 2 up 2 downs. There are 2 state primaries. One populated by the rich and one by the poor. Guess which state school has doctors, lawyers, sports people going in to help and run clubs and is the best school in the county. All the while, the rich mummies think they are the salt of the earth because they send their kid to the "standard local state school". It's anything but. And it successfully trains the kids for 11+ scholarships at private schools.

Also how is accepting free child care from grandparents any different for them paying for private? It's money or money's worth.

You would probably be best off making the best decision for your family/children based on your own circumstances at the time without pre judging any of it. And not dismissing people as "snobby" unless you think it would also be ok to dismiss others as "pikey".

I don't understand why people are saying it's too soon to think about this because the kids aren't born yet. Surely it's the ideal time? If the OP left it until after the children were born and then couldn't agree on a way forward, everyone would be telling her that they should have discussed all this kind of stuff before the kids came along!

It sounds to be as though your partners parents are being very efficient with their inheritance tax planning and GPs paying school fees can be a very efficient way to avoid giving massive chunks of a healthy estate to the tax man.
I would absolutely take them up on their offer, give your children a great start and work under the proviso of use it or lose it.
Don’t look at it from a moral situation but a financial one.

@campion

Maybe start by having a child first and then see how that goes. Life has a funny way of smacking you in the face when you start confidently imagining how things are going to be. I think someone wrote a song about that once. Getting married would be a good idea though.

Agree with this. Cross the bridge when you come to it.

@itsbritneybitch92

Okay okay not £30k. I’ve probably massively inflated the cost per term in my head as I’m so put off by the idea of paying thousands on something that can be provided for free 😂

State education isn’t free. It’s paid for by your taxes.

As long as you choose a school where the pupils are nice, we’ll rounded and aren’t the public school horrors we all dread meeting, you’ll be fine

A friend sent hers to a school near us and when I bumped into them once the kids were bloody awful! So rude and ill mannered. My ds has super manners, I’d have been ashamed if he’d been even a smidge as rude as hers.