To ask for other solutions to my in laws up-sizing problem

[LoHicimosAmigos]

Just wondering if there was something I hadn't thought of. My mother in law is not in a good place right now, signed off work with depression, saying that she doesn't see the point in living anymore. I'm trying to help her from a practical point of view. She also speaks to me about it as everyone else shuts any discussion of emotions down.
Lots of her depression stems from their house. She LOATHES her neighbours, hates the area and it's too small. Adult sons still live it home so that's four adults in a two bed. Parking is a nightmare. She works just round the corner but hates her job, yet she needs to work and can't drive so says it's the only job she can do. The boys fight constantly, partly because they're men in their thirties who still have to share a room.
What she thinks will solve the problem is buying a three bed house. So a room for both sons. However selling a two bed will not buy you a three bed in the same area without getting a mortgage which they don't want and at sixty plus I can see why.

The only options I can see are that she considers buying a three bed in another area, further from work and therefore finds a new job. Or she tells the sons she is giving them until this date to move out and she can buy a lovely two or one bed in the area of her choice, maybe give up work and have a better standard of life.
I think this is a much better idea. She refuses to 'kick them out' but everyone would be happier. One son has given up work altogether as he only needs money for the odd take away. The other is saving but also has a brand new car. I think they need independence, the whole house is so full of tension and depression as if this is not how any of them imagined life. They all love each other but need some space.
I'd love to know if there are any government schemes, initiatives etc to help older people buy a bigger house or help children to move out but keep a share of the capital or something similar.

What your In Laws need to do, is sell their two bed, downsize to a one bed flat/apartment and their two adult sons need to move out and live as adults! Now wonder your poor MIL is struggling with depression.

there are places for over 55s, but again, she would need to move.

she will have to solve her own issues op.

@LoHicimosAmigos

Also in defence of my BiL's, they have had no help in anyway with money to move out. Most people of my generation have had some help with deposits as we are the third generations of home buyers. That makes a big difference! My in laws are the first generation, meaning they didn't inherit a substantial amount whilst already being homeowners, which could then be passed to their children. Im not saying all get this but a lot do.

A lot really, really don’t.

or you could actively speak to her sons and tell them to move out., shame them

I think it can happen

I know of a couple of scenarios where 2 sons in their 50s still lived at home, one son came back and it enabled their mum to retire (dad dies) and she liked the company, they both worked paying their way and she did their laundry

But these 2 sound like they need to go

@LoHicimosAmigos

Thanks for the tough love. I feel she needs to here it. It's such a difficult family situation. BiL2 isn't diagnosed but has had a lot of bad luck. It's hard to describe without knowing the family well. They're a very paranoid, depressed family with years of trauma, abuse, precarious financial situations, MH problems and addiction. It's very common where I live. I sometimes get very cross about the BiLs not sorting their lives out but I come from a very well off, stable, confident family, I've never seen my dad being sectioned or had close family die when young. I don't know what I would do, or not do in their shoes. Yes many come from similar backgrounds and achieve amazing things but many do not. I see many through work who are basically incapable of work through what I would call lack of emotional resilience. Your boss tells you your uniform needs an iron, I would move past it, they would ruminate on this, call it a character assassination and never go back.

Come on OP this is no excuse for men in their 30s living at home and one giving up work to sponge off their depressed mother.

There are plenty of people with really traumatic childhoods who have set up stable adults lives without money behind them.

An friend of mine saw his mum sectioned for attempting suicide after his father died - he found her aged 10 and had to call the ambulance (she’d stabbed herself). He doesn’t use it as an excuse not to engage with adult life.

I got into a huge row on another thread for saying that I thought there was always a reason for this kind of behaviour, that laziness is not just a natural condition, and it sounds as if you too are giving a lot of thought to why they've ended up in this position. Which is lovely. But.

I DO think it sounds very much like a shared mind, that they just can't extricate themselves from the house, or each other.

If you're MIL is suicidal, she really does need to see her doctor. And maybe you could offer to go with her? Then you could outline the home life, if it's not already well known.

It is possible that all that trauma, on top of some neuro diversity/ intellectual issues, means that the men just can't make the leap necessary. If no one figured out the problems earlier, they're looking pretty entrenched in their behaviour.

The thing that really stands out is that they're sharing a room. Seriously, I cannot imagine anyone actively choosing that part of the situation, unless they're really... damaged? struggling with adult realities?

How long have you known them? Have you ever known them to have plans, ideas, their mum to ever have yelled at them to shift?!

I'm truly unsure what you can do to help, but MIL getting a second mortgage/ annuity would be a nightmare all around.

Before she was depressed, did she do everything for them? Has she stopped?

I wouldn't necessarily prevent my children seeing them, that's a very simplistic view.

If your MIL is pathological - wailing at her sorrows, "threatening" to end it all, no concept of what may be appropriate in front of small children, then of course avoid.

If she brightens up when she sees you all, and they have a relationship with her, then that's good, and the whole issue of hiding is also avoided.

Meanwhile, I grew up seeing sad relatives occasionally, as in lived in a boarding house, in horrible conditions, but as far as I knew, were fine the way they were.

At a very young age it made me very sure I never wanted to live like that.

There have always been petiole who weren't up to working, who somehow ended up staying home, completely lost what to do once their parents died. I'm not sure why we're all so surprised that this still exists.

But in the middle of all this you have to protect yourself. You have a difficult job, small children, etc etc. Listen to her, help her get practical support from others, but don't expect miracles.

One person with difficulties, possibly manageable, 3 adults with no real insight into their own situation? Zero chance of affecting change I reckon. Sorry.

sons can take longer to move out, and due to relationship breakdown, move back
but she needs to look for help herself

Adult sons still live it home

I think she'd find evicting them very liberating.

The adults sons need to leave home and stand on their own feet. I can’t believe that ones not even working!!

My ds in 20s still here

Hopefully he'll go at some point

@ByHook0rByCrook

A young man in his late teens and early 20s still living at home is a failure to launch problem, and could possibly need a bit of guided support and strong parental boundaries to get there. A man in his 30s still living at home quite simply needs to move out, regardless.

It really isn't. It is the failure of the Government making housing unaffordable. Hundreds of thousands of people are living with their parents into their 30s because the cost of housing is too high and the Government won't build vital housing because it reduces house prices and rents (and will upset their core voters). Hence you get societal problems like this which ends up affecting more than the adult children.

Also in defence of my BiL's, they have had no help in anyway with money to move out.
Maybe one should spend money on deposit for a flat rather than buy a new car - and the other one could get a job and pay his way?

No wonder MIL is depressed - not just at having raised two useless oafs, but having to live with and support them.

@lonelyapple and how many of those 30+ year olds living at home because of government housing policy have jacked in their jobs cos they only think they need to pay for their takeaways?

The sons are the problem.

They have lived at home off their parents for the best part of a decade (assuming they went to uni and came back at 21).

On minimum wage of 17k a year thats the best part of 170k they could of saved EACH.

As our generation says - they are wastemen

@LoHicimosAmigos

For all the mental health awareness out there, there's some pretty harsh replies on here. Some people will never be emotional resilient enough to work.

But does ‘emotional resilience’ come into it when you’re giving up work because you only need money for the occasionally takeaway? Or is it simply a case of knowing you don’t need to worry too much about the drudgery of work because your mom will never chuck you out, regardless of what it’s doing to her?

Protect your own sanity. You can do that.
You can't fix them.

There’s a great scheme for getting “the boys” into their own houses, actually. To be eligible, first they’ll both need jobs. Then they put some of their salary into the government’s LISA scheme, which will top it up – if they save £4k per year the government gives them £1k, tax-free. Should be doable as they’re living rent-free. Then they use the LISA money as a deposit and their salary to pay the mortgage, et voila!

Kick her adults out! Solved! More space in the house, more peace and they'll learn some independence.
The 2 options in life aren't just to share a house or stay at home to buy (which they clearly aren't ever going to do considering they're both in their 30s and haven't done it yet!). People CAN rent a property. They could even rent a 2 bed property together.

Then work on the job situation. Then after the adults have moved out, she can give the house a spring clean, declutter, use the 2nd bedroom for something else - a guest room or a hobby room would be a lovely luxury. Then after all of that she could consider whether she really needs to buy a new house, or if her curret one suits her needs.

Mil needs to tell them to move out. They are lazy and they don't pay their way. Odd jobs and a weekly waitrose shop is not paying your way. Do they not care about MIL? Seems like they are both happy to sponge off her and don't seem to care about her mental health or well being. She could get herself a lovely retirement flat and give up work if she didnt have two grown men to subsidise (from what you've said). You can't fix this, nothing will change until these men get off their lazy bums and start acting like adults. Oh and not everyone gets help from the bank of mum and dad. I've not had a penny from my parents, ever.

Does anyone remember a thread in a similar situation where someone possibly the op of that thread tried to legally stop the parents from selling the family home stating they had to agree to the sale as an adult resident, despite never paying anything to the mortgage!

Your boss tells you your uniform needs an iron, I would move past it, they would ruminate on this, call it a character assassination and never go back

I would call this a lack of work ethic!
They are living in a situation where work is a option. Work isn't optional if you want to eat and live.

She needs to get tough and tell her sons they need to move out and stand on their own two feet! It’s about time they grew up and took responsibility for their own lives rather than relying on mum.

Convert the loft into a bedroom

It really isn't. It is the failure of the Government making housing unaffordable.

@lonelyapple It is very much possible for people to do- most grownups do it.

I'm disabled and unable to work but I get benefits which cover my rent.

So I can't buy- so what? No point me p*ssing and moaning about it. And these children don't have to choose between buying their own place, or living at home with their mum. They could rent like most other grown up human beings in the UK. I doubt that they're saving to buy (not that I could ever do that and still live at home with Mummy, I'd still want my own place.)

They could gradually save a deposit from their wages or benefits, as they don't have many outgoings, then each rent a place (room or flat, depending what they're personally entitled to.)