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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask for other solutions to my in laws up-sizing problem

236 replies

LoHicimosAmigos · 27/02/2022 09:07

Just wondering if there was something I hadn't thought of. My mother in law is not in a good place right now, signed off work with depression, saying that she doesn't see the point in living anymore. I'm trying to help her from a practical point of view. She also speaks to me about it as everyone else shuts any discussion of emotions down.
Lots of her depression stems from their house. She LOATHES her neighbours, hates the area and it's too small. Adult sons still live it home so that's four adults in a two bed. Parking is a nightmare. She works just round the corner but hates her job, yet she needs to work and can't drive so says it's the only job she can do. The boys fight constantly, partly because they're men in their thirties who still have to share a room.
What she thinks will solve the problem is buying a three bed house. So a room for both sons. However selling a two bed will not buy you a three bed in the same area without getting a mortgage which they don't want and at sixty plus I can see why.

The only options I can see are that she considers buying a three bed in another area, further from work and therefore finds a new job. Or she tells the sons she is giving them until this date to move out and she can buy a lovely two or one bed in the area of her choice, maybe give up work and have a better standard of life.
I think this is a much better idea. She refuses to 'kick them out' but everyone would be happier. One son has given up work altogether as he only needs money for the odd take away. The other is saving but also has a brand new car. I think they need independence, the whole house is so full of tension and depression as if this is not how any of them imagined life. They all love each other but need some space.
I'd love to know if there are any government schemes, initiatives etc to help older people buy a bigger house or help children to move out but keep a share of the capital or something similar.

OP posts:
Cocomarine · 27/02/2022 10:45

@LoHicimosAmigos

I agree but it's not easy for young men, either share a room in a shared house or stay at home and save for their own place, which I imagine is what they intended to do.
Young men?! Did you write that in all seriousness?
catfunk · 27/02/2022 10:47

This is honestly ridiculous.

I'd say she they all need to club together to buy a bigger house as this situation is untenable so they'll have to be on the mortgage/ have a salary to contribute.

Don't the sons want girlfriends ? Friends around ? It's so weird !

Mellowyellow222 · 27/02/2022 10:50

@LoHicimosAmigos

Also in defence of my BiL's, they have had no help in anyway with money to move out. Most people of my generation have had some help with deposits as we are the third generations of home buyers. That makes a big difference! My in laws are the first generation, meaning they didn't inherit a substantial amount whilst already being homeowners, which could then be passed to their children. Im not saying all get this but a lot do.
This is nonsense. They could rent - not everyone needs to be a homeowner.

There isn’t room for them at their parents home - they need to grow up and move out.

It will do them the works of good - they aren’t young men , they are fast approaching middle age

StateOfTheUterus · 27/02/2022 10:50

@TinyBarista - yes you are right - I’m not a mortgage broker so not sure of the pitfalls of a regulated Buy To Let mortgage where family are involved - but I guess I was thinking it was a way for her to get her own place and help them have a secure home without losing out financially?

Gazelda · 27/02/2022 10:50

Are they both your BILs, or is one of them your ex?
Can you clarify who the 4 adults living there are, and which of them are working?
And if any of them have diagnosed conditions that prevent them from being able to work?
Would either of them be eligible for a supported living placement?
What does MIL see as the solution?
Are the brothers aware of the extend of your MIL's mental health difficulties?

godmum56 · 27/02/2022 10:50

@BluebellsGreenbells

I have very small children and it's kind of hard for me to imagine ever kicking them out either

Why? Do you not want them to be independent and have successful relationships? Do you not want them to spread their wings and fly?

I still remember desperately wanting to leave home and live by myself and I sincerely hope my children feel the same!! It’s how it should be.

yup this. My parents supported us as kids to walk to school then DELIBERATELY chose a secondary school that was a bus ride away then encouraged us to go to colleges that were not local so we couldn't live at home. They loved us so much they wanted the best for us.
Cocomarine · 27/02/2022 10:54

@LoHicimosAmigos

For all the mental health awareness out there, there's some pretty harsh replies on here. Some people will never be emotional resilient enough to work.
I have personal family experience of such types. How much they can cope with working, is definitely related to whether free accommodation is available or not 🤷🏻‍♀️ One sibling: single, stays with my parents. Can’t work. One sibling: has children in school miles from parent, rent to pay, no room in parents’ to house the lot of them anyway. Manages to work. Both of them have very genuine MH issues, but there’s definitely a relationship between availability of free accommodation and “needs must” when it comes to their ability to work 🤨
LoHicimosAmigos · 27/02/2022 10:54

Thanks for the tough love. I feel she needs to here it.
It's such a difficult family situation. BiL2 isn't diagnosed but has had a lot of bad luck. It's hard to describe without knowing the family well. They're a very paranoid, depressed family with years of trauma, abuse, precarious financial situations, MH problems and addiction. It's very common where I live.
I sometimes get very cross about the BiLs not sorting their lives out but I come from a very well off, stable, confident family, I've never seen my dad being sectioned or had close family die when young. I don't know what I would do, or not do in their shoes. Yes many come from similar backgrounds and achieve amazing things but many do not. I see many through work who are basically incapable of work through what I would call lack of emotional resilience. Your boss tells you your uniform needs an iron, I would move past it, they would ruminate on this, call it a character assassination and never go back.

OP posts:
LibrariesGiveUsPower · 27/02/2022 10:57

Home ownership is not the be all and end all. These men need to move out, find a flat and start paying their bills. If they want to own a home they will have to work hard and save for it. MiL is not responsible for getting them on the ladder, how grim her sons seem to be waiting for her to pop her clogs so they can own a home. She might need to sell the home for her care.

Right now everyone’s mental health is spiralling. Fixing that is far more important than home ownership. The biggest fix will be separating them all from this massively unhealthy relationship/living arrangement.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 27/02/2022 10:58

They're a very paranoid, depressed family with years of trauma, abuse, precarious financial situations, MH problems and addiction. It's very common where I live.

Yes, it is common in a number of areas. Nonetheless, people still need to live and be supported appropriately. From what you're saying it doesn't seem as if the BiL2 has been active in seeking a diagnosis that would gain him appropriate referrals and either ESA or DLA/PIP in the interim that would help him to move on.

SirVixofVixHall · 27/02/2022 10:59

@LoHicimosAmigos

Also in defence of my BiL's, they have had no help in anyway with money to move out. Most people of my generation have had some help with deposits as we are the third generations of home buyers. That makes a big difference! My in laws are the first generation, meaning they didn't inherit a substantial amount whilst already being homeowners, which could then be passed to their children. Im not saying all get this but a lot do.
Most of my friends did not have help to move out. A couple were given house deposits but five years or more after leaving home and after renting for that time. The “boys” are actually middle aged men ! Sharing a room with your brother in your thirties must be pretty demoralising, why aren’t they taking steps to move out ? Why did they both stay at home ?
LibrariesGiveUsPower · 27/02/2022 10:59

If they are unable to work they need to apply for the appropriate benefits and social housing. If MiL sells up and buys a one bed retirement cottage she will do herself no end of favours.

Cocomarine · 27/02/2022 10:59

@LoHicimosAmigos I also am close to that background. I’ve described 2 siblings in my previous post - I actually have a third who doesn’t / can’t (depending on your view) work. Plus a partner of one of them. I nodded to the ironing comment!
In all cases though - they have worked when they had to.
You said yourself that the takeaway pisstaker used to work.
Be careful you don’t make too many excuses for them.
Just because some people genuine can’t work, doesn’t mean there aren’t a whole bunch a people who could and choose to sponge instead.

Totalwasteofpaper · 27/02/2022 11:03

@LoHicimosAmigos

Thanks for the tough love. I feel she needs to here it. It's such a difficult family situation. BiL2 isn't diagnosed but has had a lot of bad luck. It's hard to describe without knowing the family well. They're a very paranoid, depressed family with years of trauma, abuse, precarious financial situations, MH problems and addiction. It's very common where I live. I sometimes get very cross about the BiLs not sorting their lives out but I come from a very well off, stable, confident family, I've never seen my dad being sectioned or had close family die when young. I don't know what I would do, or not do in their shoes. Yes many come from similar backgrounds and achieve amazing things but many do not. I see many through work who are basically incapable of work through what I would call lack of emotional resilience. Your boss tells you your uniform needs an iron, I would move past it, they would ruminate on this, call it a character assassination and never go back.
You CANNOT fix this

And I would be heavily limiting my children's exposure to these people (this includes your Mil and her melancholy / suicidal thoughts / negativity)

ChicCroissant · 27/02/2022 11:09

@LoHicimosAmigos

Thanks for the tough love. I feel she needs to here it. It's such a difficult family situation. BiL2 isn't diagnosed but has had a lot of bad luck. It's hard to describe without knowing the family well. They're a very paranoid, depressed family with years of trauma, abuse, precarious financial situations, MH problems and addiction. It's very common where I live. I sometimes get very cross about the BiLs not sorting their lives out but I come from a very well off, stable, confident family, I've never seen my dad being sectioned or had close family die when young. I don't know what I would do, or not do in their shoes. Yes many come from similar backgrounds and achieve amazing things but many do not. I see many through work who are basically incapable of work through what I would call lack of emotional resilience. Your boss tells you your uniform needs an iron, I would move past it, they would ruminate on this, call it a character assassination and never go back.
While I don't think that her home life is helping, I doubt moving property will sort your MILs problems out. It will just move them to a new place. Honestly, don't get involved - if she's not willing to take the steps that will help her, no-one else can do it for her. It has to come from her.
Beautiful3 · 27/02/2022 11:10

Rhey are in their 30s! Kick them out, and buy a lively 1 bed property in a nicer area.

me4real · 27/02/2022 11:14

I just can't imagine telling anyone to go and get a job. Maybe it's because I work in social care but there are so many factors as to why this might not be an easy thing to do.

@LoHicimosAmigos Is the particularly leechy brother even signing on, though? Or if he can't work he can get sickness/disability benefits.

I know of a family where because the son is leeching off his 70+ mum, he doesn't have to sign on or apply for benefits, so he doesn't bother.

I'm pretty much unable to work for life due to mental health disabilities, but I wouldn't sponge off other people, I'd apply for what I could get etc if I were living with family And I'd always want my own place no matter how ill I was.

Also @LoHicimosAmigos If people don't bother getting any help for their issues or work on self-improvement, then I have very little patience for that. I have bipolar with some other issues and I can honestly say I've done most things possible to try and improve myself, including spending my PIP on therapy/health stuff most of the time etc.

ThunderSnowDrop · 27/02/2022 11:15

You are bending over backwards to excuse poor behaviour and that's not healthy in itself.

ThunderSnowDrop · 27/02/2022 11:18

Examine your own thinking too.
You have zero evidence ( it seems) to suggest living at home meant they thought they were saving for their own place. (Without earning this is fantasy is it not?)
This is you thinking what you would do.

dollybird · 27/02/2022 11:21

@ByHook0rByCrook

A young man in his late teens and early 20s still living at home is a failure to launch problem, and could possibly need a bit of guided support and strong parental boundaries to get there. A man in his 30s still living at home quite simply needs to move out, regardless.
Really?? Did you mean early thirties?
billy1966 · 27/02/2022 11:23

OP,

You cannot fix this and it isn't your place to try to.

I wouldn't want my children near this dynamic.

That may be harsh, but I wouldn't.

This is your husbands family.

Have you chosen to live near this dynamic?

If you have, why would you?

Why would you want your children exposed as they grow up to such a dynamic?

As your children grow up you will find yourself increasingly busy with their young lives.

By becoming overly involved you are potentially bringing lifelong stress into your life.

Will you be expected to look after two grown men when your MIL passes because you have involved yourself into a dynamic that you had no need to be involved with.

If your family background is so vastly different, what exactly was the appeal of this family, that you have become so hugely involved?

Is your husband trying to fix them?

If not, why are you?
Flowers

jytdtysrht · 27/02/2022 11:26

My good god no wonder she is depressed

RedRobin100 · 27/02/2022 11:28

A bigger house isn’t going to solve your MiLs problems - it’s only going to cost her more money.

ThanksItHasPockets · 27/02/2022 11:31

This will be hard to hear when you are clearly motivated by compassion and kindness but I think you need to examine your role in this situation very carefully and frankly admit to yourself that you are starting to enable this situation rather than helping. I'm sorry OP, but you really cannot fix this.

THisbackwithavengeance · 27/02/2022 11:35

I've seen this mentioned on MN a few times where if you suggest that a "young person" might want to share a house, it's like you've asked them to move to The Moon.

They only options acceptable to them are either living with parents forever, winning the lottery and buying a house outright or moving in with their current girlfriend/fuckbuddy who usually has a couple of kids and hence has her own house.

What the fuck is wrong with them?

My good friend is in this situation. Her 28 year old son lives at home, doesn't work, would rather not work as it eats into his sleeping and leisure time and his mum sorts him out for food, petrol and mobile phone.

I'm not blaming my friend nor am I blaming your MIL. This is a societal problem where young British men have become totally fucking useless. Not all but a sizeable majority.

DH and I were watching something about young Ukranian men heading off to fight and we were saying if that happens here, we are fucked. Theyd all run away leaving their mums and dads to fight on the frontline for them.