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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask for other solutions to my in laws up-sizing problem

236 replies

LoHicimosAmigos · 27/02/2022 09:07

Just wondering if there was something I hadn't thought of. My mother in law is not in a good place right now, signed off work with depression, saying that she doesn't see the point in living anymore. I'm trying to help her from a practical point of view. She also speaks to me about it as everyone else shuts any discussion of emotions down.
Lots of her depression stems from their house. She LOATHES her neighbours, hates the area and it's too small. Adult sons still live it home so that's four adults in a two bed. Parking is a nightmare. She works just round the corner but hates her job, yet she needs to work and can't drive so says it's the only job she can do. The boys fight constantly, partly because they're men in their thirties who still have to share a room.
What she thinks will solve the problem is buying a three bed house. So a room for both sons. However selling a two bed will not buy you a three bed in the same area without getting a mortgage which they don't want and at sixty plus I can see why.

The only options I can see are that she considers buying a three bed in another area, further from work and therefore finds a new job. Or she tells the sons she is giving them until this date to move out and she can buy a lovely two or one bed in the area of her choice, maybe give up work and have a better standard of life.
I think this is a much better idea. She refuses to 'kick them out' but everyone would be happier. One son has given up work altogether as he only needs money for the odd take away. The other is saving but also has a brand new car. I think they need independence, the whole house is so full of tension and depression as if this is not how any of them imagined life. They all love each other but need some space.
I'd love to know if there are any government schemes, initiatives etc to help older people buy a bigger house or help children to move out but keep a share of the capital or something similar.

OP posts:
TrashyPanda · 27/02/2022 10:15

[quote LoHicimosAmigos]@TrashyPanda yes and they're usually horrible too. I had one telling me 'have you not thought about getting a better paid job?' when I work full time for the NHS? I mean yes we could all leave but then where would that leave the country? [/quote]
Err - you are demonising thousands of people with that statement. And going way OTT.

It is their job to manage benefits etc according to Government policy. They don’t make up the rules.

If you apply for benefits you don’t qualify for, they can’t bend the rules for you. Or your MIL. You need more money - what are they supposed to say?

ThoseFestiveLights · 27/02/2022 10:16

There are some retirement flats where they do a part-ownership but effectively then keep your capital. Not dodgy - at the luxury end of anything.

You need to work out the sums - eg value of hour and what’s needed for a flat for the boys and for your mil.

Are the boys on council housing wait lists?

What does your mil really want?

LaChanticleer · 27/02/2022 10:17

I agree but it's not easy for young men, either share a room in a shared house

Good Lord! I shared houses until my early 30s, when I could afford to move to my own place. I then managed to buy a (tiny) place and had a lodger to help me pay the mortgage (15% mortgage interest was fun).

It's absolutely normal for young people to share houses as adults.

Your DH needs to help your MiL move her sons on. Can your DH intervene with his brothers. Their dissatisfaction is entirely of their own making.

Your idea that she "upsizes" and gets a mortgage or fucking benefit scrounging gets Government support??? ! It's bonkers - sorry, I know you're trying to find solutions, but WHY would you think that stretched councils or us taxpayers should fund your able-bodied young brothers in law to laze about not working and buying take-aways?

Unless this is entire story is a wind up. The more I think about it, the more likely that is.

ThoseFestiveLights · 27/02/2022 10:17

Sorry so many typos there! But yes there are part ownership retirement flats.

It depends on the value of the house. I assume she has a pension?

Totalwasteofpaper · 27/02/2022 10:18

The key thing that struck me in your OP was this

My mother in law is not in a good place right now, signed off work with depression, saying that she doesn't see the point in living anymore. I'm trying to help her from a practical point of view. She also speaks to me about it as everyone else shuts any discussion of emotions down.

You have kids yourself and I am guessing you work so this is another layer of stress and I imagine it weighs heavily and you want to help.
But you can’t because they are entrenched in years of enmeshment.

Your focus is on practical solutions but even you call out some of the dysfunction going on here.

You can argue it all you like but I think you know It is just not normal to be mid 30s and at home with no sizeable deposit especially when it’s overcrowded (I understand it if you have your own wing with en suite and what not)
I imagine she is their skivvy and cooks and cleans for them…
Her job is nonsense. Millions of people use public transport to get to work she could find a new job if she actually wanted to effect change.
That said, I am sure her life is quite miserable but it’s important to note she is to some degree choosing this.

The family clearly don’t have money to burn yet the DBIL has a brand new car (I am firmly middle class and 30s all our friends are homeowners NONE of them buy new cars all have used)
They aren’t adequately housed yet shop at Waitrose weekly. (Our household income is firmly in the £100k+ bracket and we don’t shop there weekly when we do it is comfortably 2.5x cost of our normal shop)
None of this is normal.

Your MIL sounds like she wants to be seen and heard by the men around her who are oblivious and indifferent to the hardship and sacrifices she has makes for them. You are her only port in a storm so she vents at you.

Your DHs family sound dysfunctional and enmeshed at best and you would be surprised but they may even turn on you if you try and upset the status quo.

Tldr
Your BILs are infantiled and enmeshed and it’s not healthy.
you can’t fix it

LaChanticleer · 27/02/2022 10:19

I'd love to know if there are any government schemes, initiatives etc to help older people buy a bigger house or help children to move out but keep a share of the capital or something similar.

This idea - this entitlement - is what really irritates me in your thinking.

As if sharing a house is just too hard for two able young men. If that's the way your family thinks ... no wonder we're in a mess.

Chloemol · 27/02/2022 10:19

@LoHicimosAmigos

I agree but it's not easy for young men, either share a room in a shared house or stay at home and save for their own place, which I imagine is what they intended to do.
But they are not, or at least one of them isn’t as you say he hasn’t got a job

They are in their 30s so if this was the idea then surely they would have done this by now, and certainly wouldn’t have given up a job or bought a new car

Tough love is needed. She needs to put the house in the market if she doesn’t like it and find somewhere she likes. She does not take into account what her sons want, rather she tells them they need to find somewhere

However could it be that actually she could stay where she is if the sons move out as the atmosphere would get better? So she gives them a date to leave by

trackerby · 27/02/2022 10:21

You're wasting your time OP. Two men in their their thirties, sharing a room and fighting all the time. Your ex, their brother is unstable, and what's FIL got to say about any of this?

Far too many issues for you to resolve OP. I wouldn't even try.

BluebellsGreenbells · 27/02/2022 10:24

I agree with PP you clearly are trying to save this family. They don’t want to be saved.

viques · 27/02/2022 10:25

@LoHicimosAmigos

Also in defence of my BiL's, they have had no help in anyway with money to move out. Most people of my generation have had some help with deposits as we are the third generations of home buyers. That makes a big difference! My in laws are the first generation, meaning they didn't inherit a substantial amount whilst already being homeowners, which could then be passed to their children. Im not saying all get this but a lot do.
If they are in their thirties then they have had at least ten years of active working life to save. If they had then pooled their savings there would be enough for a deposit on a flat or a small house even, depending where they are in the country. Of course, this is pie in the sky since they have hunkered down at the bank of mum and dad and are enjoying their inheritance before they inherit it if you see what I mean.
ginghamstarfish · 27/02/2022 10:27

No wonder she's depressed! She needs to boot her sons out and downsize to a 1 bedroom home, with lower bills, cheaper to run, easier to look after, and no room for guests.

Summerfun54321 · 27/02/2022 10:27

2 men in their 30s sharing a bedroom in a 2 bed house with their parents - that’s totally fucked up! There is absolutely no excuse for this scenario.

StateOfTheUterus · 27/02/2022 10:28

It all sounds bonkers. Does she have much equity in her home? If so:
MIL sells house and downsizes to one bed flat.
Uses equity from sale for deposit for another property for the “boys”. The “boys” both get jobs and pay her mortgage.

Summerfun54321 · 27/02/2022 10:29

Also anyone I know in their 30s who can’t afford to buy, just rents. They don’t share a room with their other adult sibling at home.

Georgeskitchen · 27/02/2022 10:29

"Government scheme to help people buy a larger house to accommodate their 30 something wastrel sons" There is a lot of craziness on mumsnet but this is near the top of the pile!!

RowanAlong · 27/02/2022 10:31

You could rescue her!! Offer to go in with her on a house and invite her to live with you 😁

RowanAlong · 27/02/2022 10:32

...without the sons, obviously.

CharSiu · 27/02/2022 10:34

Does the brother who doesn’t work at all have a diagnosed condition?

I know someone whose older adult DS still lives at home but he has autism, mobility issues, no friends apart from an online one or two and his interactions with others are limited and he doesn’t work.

It sounds like all the men in her life are draining the very life and soul out of the woman. There is nothing you can do.

All she could do is walk away or throw them out and she won’t.

My SIL is a massive bully, MIL confides in me. It’s an incredibly difficult position to be in. SIL has recently had 10k to set up a business out of her. I don’t envy your position I’m also in it but it’s no where near as bad.

TinyBarista · 27/02/2022 10:34

@StateOfTheUterus

It all sounds bonkers. Does she have much equity in her home? If so: MIL sells house and downsizes to one bed flat. Uses equity from sale for deposit for another property for the “boys”. The “boys” both get jobs and pay her mortgage.
DP is a mortgage broker and I've had the pleasure of many mortgage related conversations. What you seem to be suggesting is a regulated BTL. Whilst it could work it's not as simple as it might first appear.
FinallyHere · 27/02/2022 10:35

She refuses to 'kick them out' but everyone would be happier. One son has given up work altogether as he only needs money for the odd take away. The other is saving but also has a brand new car.

The key to successful problem solving is to find the root of the problem and fix that.

The root here is that 'she' is on the one hand effectively subsidising two adult sons who show no signs of living at home just in order to save for their own place, while on the other hand refusing to tell them they need to move out.

Until a resolution can be found to this problem, she will continue to be unable to enjoy the life she had built for herself.

Tricky, isn't it. It really is up to her to decide. I would encourage you to support in in making that decision. Thinking there may be another solution just prolongs the agony.

As PP has pointed out, there is a really unhealthy dynamic here if men being infantilised and women bending over backwards to accommodate them.

SpiderVersed · 27/02/2022 10:35

They aren’t boys.

They aren’t young.

You’re complicit in this infantilising narrative.

They need to find rooms in a shared house and get out while your ex-MIL sells up and moves somewhere she prefers.

Harrysutton · 27/02/2022 10:35

The men need to move out. How ridiculous.

TinyBarista · 27/02/2022 10:36

Sorry, BTL = buy to let
It's acronym central round here.

TimeForTeaAndG · 27/02/2022 10:36

Actually, I think you are maybe thinking of equity release with the chunk of money from a purchased home.

Equity release is a secured loan and needs to be paid back.

GoogleWhacked · 27/02/2022 10:38

One son has given up work altogether as he only needs money for the odd take away
No, he needs to pay his way in life. Pay his mother rent/towards the mortgage, to cover bills, food etc...
I'm unbelievably frustrated on her behalf 😤

Is one of these sons your DH/ex-DH? You are the only one concerned for her welfare, neither of her sons care- it's very sad!
How old is she? If her sons are 30+ then she's likely near retirement, they should be working and she should be slowing down. God almighty, no wonder the poor woman is depressed.

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