Uncomfortable with a good friend's opinion on Ukraine

[LifeIsWhat]

Of course he is entitled to his opinion, and I fully respect that. However, I am still shocked to learn that he thinks that, It is pointless for the Ukraine people to flight, they should just surrender and wait for the US and NATO to join the war. What's the point to fight a losing war. He made is clear that he would run away and let others to fight.

My argument s are:

1. why would other people flight for you if you are not prepared at least try to defend your own country? It is only nature to defend your home when enemy broke in and bluntly invaded your country.
2. Many things, from a toothache to a war, it is better to kill it at early stage, the price might seem high now, but leave it later will cost you much much more.

Anyway, I am quite surprised and disappointed...

@saleorbouy

Your friend is a coward who lacks morals, the Ukrainian people are fighting for their country, beliefs, culture, freedom and property.

Do you think the Ukrainian people who have fled are cowards who lack morals?

It's called the 'fight or flight' response for a reason OP.

Why are you so shocked. He does have a point. Generally, It's not sensible to fight a much stronger opponent.

Re the conflicts in the Middle East. It looks like mainly men leaving. In Ukraine the men are staying to fight.

All the people saying they would run away - to where? We are an island and they'd take our airports straight away. Genuinely curios - do you mean as in away from cities?

I would run away too. I have children, i would do whatever it took to make them safe. I wouldn't leave them with someone else and risk my life fighting. How can i make sure they're safe if I'm dead? I wouldn't blame anyone for running away. It's the same argument people have against refugees from places like Afghanistan and Syria. "They're young and fit, they're cowards if they don't stay and fight". Or, they don't want to die or see their families die.

I'm sorry your dad put his beliefs before you and left you knowing he could have died and left you without a dad. That must have been hard to take as a child.

I actually just laughed out loud at this. It’s easy to say you’d stay and ‘fight’ when you’re sat on your sofa with a packet of biscuits.

Exactly.

OP, we live in a country that hasn't had an invasion that affected the population as a whole since 1066. It's easy to tell ourselves lies about how brave we would be. Have you ever had a gun pointed at you? Have you ever consciously risked your life for anything?

It sounds as if your friend is just more imaginative and less of a hypocrite than you.

I remember the good old days when people could have a friendly debate about politics and allsorts of ithe subjects without it being the be all or end all. Differing opinions were the norm and encouraged healthy debate. No need to fall out about it!!

@Oblomov22

Why are you so shocked. He does have a point. Generally, It's not sensible to fight a much stronger opponent.

Which is what makes the Ukrainean people who are fighting absolute heroes.

Had the same (quiet) debate with someone just today - I said pretty much what your friend did apart from 'let US and NATO' fight - of course they will not, this would guarantee a nuclear war all round!

Putin is not stupid - he’s using the threat of nuclear war to make the US and EU hesitant to get involved. However, just as Russia has nuclear weapons so does the US. And while I think Western European countries would be hesitant to retaliate to a nuclear attack with nuclear weapons, the US certainly wouldn’t.

The last thing Putin wants to do is draw the USA into the fight which is why he’s taking a risk by using fear to put them off but (in my opinion) he’s not actually stupid enough to nuclear bomb any western country as the US would certainly get involved and would likely have more advanced weapons and retaliate on a much larger scale.

But then again who knows what he might do- but just as Putin is taking a calculated risk, the west will need to take a calculated risk (even if that risk is nuclear war) to adequately defend Europe against a Russian invasion before it is too late.

No on the contrary. Those who have gone to seek refuge are women,children and the elderly. The men 16-60 are staying to defend themselves from this tyrant.
I am in awe of their resilience, defiance and bravery in the face of adversity, but I suppose when dated with the occupation and the rule of Putin you'd muster every ounce of energy to repel his forces.
I hope the West does more to help the Ukrainians.

Remember some of the people fighting are in no position to walk hours to safety. The old and infirm are fighting for their lives. It could be us in the same situation in the future which is why the world needs to react now. If you care about your kids future get angry.

The world is essentially having to sacrifice the Ukraine in order to halt WW3
That’s my opinion
I also feel it’s pointless for them to resist , absolutely tragic, but we’re not coming to their aid.
That doesn’t mean myself or your friend don’t care.

slashlover 0738

@saleorbouy
^Your friend is a coward who lacks morals, the Ukrainian people are fighting for their country, beliefs, culture, freedom and property.

Slashlover
Do you think the Ukrainian people who have fled are cowards who lack morals?^

No on the contrary. Those who have gone to seek refuge are women,children and the elderly. The men 16-60 are staying to defend themselves from this tyrant.
I am in awe of their resilience, defiance and bravery in the face of adversity, but I suppose when dated with the occupation and the rule of Putin you'd muster every ounce of energy to repel his forces.
I hope the West does more to help the Ukrainians.

@MRS54321

The world is essentially having to sacrifice the Ukraine in order to halt WW3 That’s my opinion I also feel it’s pointless for them to resist , absolutely tragic, but we’re not coming to their aid. That doesn’t mean myself or your friend don’t care.

Bollocks. Absolute bollocks. The world has no right to sacrifice anyone nations people to protect another’s.

To think this time last week these poor people were sat on their sofas and lying in bed just like we are this weekend.

The men 16-60 are staying to defend themselves from this tyrant.

They don’t have any choice. They’re not allowed to leave.

I actually wonder whether Brits would actually be happy to surrender if Russia claimed the land and country be theirs

Its easy to say the best option is to surrender when the country has had its strong independence for centuries.

@saleorbouy

To think this time last week these poor people were sat on their sofas and lying in bed just like we are this weekend.

Absolutely correct. Normal people living a normal life like you and I. He is coming for all of us. Do not be complacent.

I agree with your friend. It is a fruitless fight and I believe that there would be far fewer civilian deaths if Russia faced no resistance.

@Velvian

I agree with your friend. It is a fruitless fight and I believe that there would be far fewer civilian deaths if Russia faced no resistance.

Unbelievable. Just when I think I’ve heard it all another one pops up to spout something ludicrous.

Easy to say you would run from the cosiness of your armchair. If the choice really were defending your country, home and family's future, I think many who could would choose to fight. That's why Putin is not finding it as easy as he thought. These people are defending their HOME, there is nowhere else to go. Putin's army are just hired things/conscripted youngsters, nothing to fight for.

@NobodysGonnaKnow, how do you think fighting Russia is going to turn out? Do you think conscription 16 YOs to fight one of the most powerful armies in the world is a good idea?

• hired thugs.

Also, one of Putin's tactics is to scare the people into surrender. He was hoping to use a reduced force to topple Kyiv with lots of fireworks and smashed residential buildings. But the people stayed and resisted. Good job too.

@saleorbouy

To think this time last week these poor people were sat on their sofas and lying in bed just like we are this weekend.

Exactly.

Your friend is daft. US and NATO will do nothing if Ukraine is taken over. The amount of sanctions put in place & funds/arms donated last night shows already how much Ukraine and their President have achieved by standing firm.

I’d like to think I’d stay and fight but it’s impossible to know until you’re put in that position.

Glory to Ukraine