Uncomfortable with a good friend's opinion on Ukraine

[LifeIsWhat]

Of course he is entitled to his opinion, and I fully respect that. However, I am still shocked to learn that he thinks that, It is pointless for the Ukraine people to flight, they should just surrender and wait for the US and NATO to join the war. What's the point to fight a losing war. He made is clear that he would run away and let others to fight.

My argument s are:

1. why would other people flight for you if you are not prepared at least try to defend your own country? It is only nature to defend your home when enemy broke in and bluntly invaded your country.
2. Many things, from a toothache to a war, it is better to kill it at early stage, the price might seem high now, but leave it later will cost you much much more.

Anyway, I am quite surprised and disappointed...

I meant, how can he persuade them to accept the new reality if they do surrender, that's a gap in his planning - he has to, for it to last/be a success, it really is a point of passion to him to see a return to some sort of harmony.

...

Ohhh, maybe I didn't think it is necessary or relevant until I was automatically accused of drinking nice wine, sitting on my sofa and having a lovely dinner.

@Classica - haha, the drama?

How convenient that you only "asked' and when it comes to another person to response, it is 'the drama'.

Office bully uses the similar approach.

@LifeIsWhat

Ohhh, maybe I didn't think it is necessary or relevant until I was automatically accused of drinking nice wine, sitting on my sofa and having a lovely dinner.

you’re missing the point (again): it doesn’t matter if you’re tired from work and short of money, or if you’re the bloody queen in her comfy castle. The point is that neither of those situations are the same as what’s happening in Ukraine. You’re not in a war zone, ie YOU HAVE NO IDEA

...

@LifeIsWhat I wasn’t having a go at you.

You mentioned feeling fortunate in your warm bed. That’s how I feel today after watching the terror of the Ukrainian people. Today I have felt very grateful for things I usually take for granted - like living in a peaceful country living a normal life with creature comforts like a warm shower.

People in Ukraine's situation: facing a future with no clean water, shelter, food, electricity, democracy, law or order, healthcare, or option to leave.

OP's situation: Have to do overtime to pay gas bill.

I think if the situation was swapped, you might have a different opinion.

I admire his honesty

I much prefer it to bullshit posturing about a situation you can barely imagine

I love this bit: This is not about me, or I want to look good.

Then proceeds to virtue signal quite a lot, (no dinner! 7 day weeks!)

And no, I didn't have dinner tonight and sitting on my comfy sofa, to virtue signalling, as I worked over time today and will also do tomorrow (that makes me working 7 days this week) to pay for the increasing energy bill

@betwixtlives

I agree that my situation does not matter - thus I didn't mention it at all. Please go though this tread and tell these who made it matter by asking if I am thinking about this over a nice glass of wine, after a lovely dinner, and sitting a sofa.

All I said was: I am disappointed about my friend thinks Ukraine should surrender straight away and let Russian takes their country, and wait for NATO and US to take it back.

...

OP, I don't think your friend's view is crazy or shocking.

I don't know that I agree entirely.

But surrendering when you know you cannot win is a pretty rational course of action. And ultimately up to the people involved to make a decision around. Which will be based on things like, what are the chances they will get help, or enough help? What are the consequences if they fight and lose, vs not?

So again, what would you be doing right now if you were in Ukraine OP?

But yeah, you're friend is stupid to stay this:
All I said was: I am disappointed about my friend thinks Ukraine should surrender straight away and let Russian takes their country, and wait for NATO and US to take it back. as surrendering to Putin would not guarantee your safety, and NATO and US would not take it back next week or potentially ever.

@GeidiPrimes
hahaha, it must feel so good to think the worst of people. You must live in a world that full of virtue signalling.

Well, yes, in my world, someone did fly back to Ukraine. And yes, I did work seven days this week. Laugh whatever you want.

@Classica

"It's so distasteful that the OP has started a thread about the situation in Ukraine and then spent the majority of the thread insisting that they're the true victim."

Given everything I said, this is so distasteful to keep accusing me of above.

Well, I will say it again, office bullies have very similar approach.

@Classica

Stop trying to co-opt kudos from the fact that a Ukranian colleague has flown back to take part in the conflict. That has zilch to do with you.

@Classica

Bully, and you must have practised it a lot.

@GeidiPrimes
hahaha, it must feel so good to think the worst of people.

Says the person who started a thread to slag off immigrants ffs

OP, I am with you.

There cannot be an expectation that Ukrainians should stay to fight because that is almost a suicide mission. But Europe should be Bloody Grateful that a large number did because they were not just fighting for Ukraine, they were fighting for the whole of Europe.

I cannot help but think the fact that Ukraine put up such a strong and heroic resistance, particularly from their brave President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, former actor and comedian, who has stepped up to whip his citizens into defending their homeland that today resulted in Europe and particularly Germany finally capitulating and banning Russia from Swift and imposing much more severe sanctions and sending weapons.

As you say, if Ukraine will not fight for its freedom, why should anyone else care if they surrender?

I'm quite happy for MN to review my posts and tell me which ones could be construed as bullying.

In the meantime I suggest you take a moment and consider that perhaps you do not know which way you would act in the current situation in Ukraine as you do not live there and it is not your reality.

Posturing on MN is easy. Reality is a tad different.

Grow up.

OP are you going to stop calling people bullies and answer what you think you would be doing if you were in Kyiv right now?

If you would not be willing to stay and fight and potentially die, then you cannot be surprised and disappointed in your friend's opinion, without being a massive hypocrite.

On this thread you are basically calling people who are running for their lives right now cowards: "And you expect the country that welcomes you to appreciated this attitude, as you will flee again and again and again when your new country/their people are in trouble." ...how many countries have you have to flee from? People don't do it on a fucking whim do they.

The comparison between what we would do is pretty irrelevant anyway. Boris would be on the first plane out of here for a start.

@GeidiPrimes

Says a person who only pick the information that suits her/his prejudice.