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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is the UK in danger from Russia?

614 replies

hereforalongtimenotagoodtime · 24/02/2022 21:58

Keep receiving conflicting information. I am sick to my stomach and quite simply hate the unknown. So a simple question - is it likely that the UK will be in danger from Russia? And if so what does that look like? Cyber attacks, bombs being dropped?

OP posts:
MarshaBradyo · 26/02/2022 09:16

@Justanotherlurker

"Well, that worked well didn't it? A first world country in the heart of europe being destroyed, whilst the worlds largest and most powerful military alliance stands idly by, with 10s of 1000s of troops and equipment a few miles away*

It's called geopolitics, as you are over all these type of threads I thought you would have a basic grasp of it, in a simplistic term it's why Italy didn't want to introduce sanctions to Russia unless they can still supply the oligarchs with designer clothes/furnishings.

Your simplistic interpretation of having 10s of thousands of troops nearby and can do nothing shows you are not aware of possible escalation or geopolitics in general.

It's nothing more than a virtue signal of we should be doing more whilst ignoring the wider ramifications, even the basic grasp of the situation will show that putting troops on the ground will make China, Pakistan,India side with Russia. It is therefore ww3 with a lot nukes on either side.

It's easy to spout online and show how much you care about the situation online, the practicalities of what you want will just mean you can name change and complain that they should have done something different. Empty virtue signaling

Any more reasonable voices are appreciated, so thanks
zingally · 26/02/2022 10:05

Honestly... To answer your original question OP... I don't think anyone really knows.

Speaking strictly personally, I'm watching to see how all this plays out for a bit longer before I decide to be worried or not. If things are still escalating significantly in, say, 10 days from now, I'll personally start making preparations to hunker down a bit.

I personally think Putin is full of a lot of hot air and big talk. But... We'll see I guess.

timeforbedzzz · 26/02/2022 10:35

@Alexandra2001

In effect yes, modern day spying, Russia has been building up troops on the boarder for months, everyone knows it would turn into ww3 if NATO/west kicks in but it was more a message to Putin to give him an out, let UK/us take the blame of scaremongering etc and move along

Well, that worked well didn't it? A first world country in the heart of europe being destroyed, whilst the worlds largest and most powerful military alliance stands idly by, with 10s of 1000s of troops and equipment a few miles away.

all we've done is show Putin that all he has to do is walk into Poland etc and say "i ll nuke you if you try n stop me" and we'll stand by as well.

It makes perfect sense though, I have read in Asian press about Russia being aware of what soldiers were saying back in December. I think it is fantastic that posters are saying as much as they can here.
timeforbedzzz · 26/02/2022 10:44

[quote Alexandra2001]@Justanotherlurker I was really replying to your dubious claim that the west was tapped into Russian secret comms & what a successful plan it all was... - as if you would know & if you did, you wouldn't be on here talking about it.

But you've made my point.... everything you say applies equally if Putin carried on into Poland or Latvia... so whats the point in NATO, he can do as he pleases.

Aside what is it with you rightwingers? any opposition and you throw your toys, pathetic.[/quote]
sorry i tagged the wrong post before I meant this one

I meant what justanother has said makes perfect sense though, I have read in Asian press about Russia being aware of what soldiers were saying back in December. I do think it is fantastic that posters are saying as much as they can here.

I think quite a lot of people have wondered about the point of NATO.

FatFredsFriedEgg · 26/02/2022 10:46

I think quite a lot of people have wondered about the point of NATO.

It's to defend its members, not its neighbours.

timeforbedzzz · 26/02/2022 10:53

@FatFredsFriedEgg

I think quite a lot of people have wondered about the point of NATO.

It's to defend its members, not its neighbours.

But it has been criticised for being ineffective for ensuring peace by its members in the past.
iCouldSleepForAYear · 26/02/2022 12:12

@RestingStitchFace

I am trying not to resort to panic and hysteria but I confess to being worried about the cyber stuff.

I know someone whose company was cyber attacked by the Russians this week. He's not someone prone to panic but he's worried now.

Trying to keep a rational head on my shoulders whilst taking sensible precautions - changing passwords (aim for 18 characters minimum), setting up 2-factor authentication, updating operating systems on IT and backing up computers, keeping paper copies of important documentation, ensuring I have cash in the house, batteries, torches to hand etc.

Trying to find a balance between covering bases and not descending into the bog-roll hoarding crazies.

Same here. Relieved to know I'm not the only one working through that mental list. The way I put it to my father last night was: "I'm trying to keep very calm, but also be wisely prepared."
getsomehelp · 26/02/2022 15:46

BA have cancelled all flight to Russia, today they had to cancel all short haul flights as their internet was down, not a cyber attack they say. Funny that

FatFredsFriedEgg · 26/02/2022 16:13

@getsomehelp

BA have cancelled all flight to Russia, today they had to cancel all short haul flights as their internet was down, not a cyber attack they say. Funny that
It's not a matter of BA cancelling flights to Russia. Russia have banned all British airlines from Russian airspace.
Kinsters · 26/02/2022 16:32

@getsomehelp

BA have cancelled all flight to Russia, today they had to cancel all short haul flights as their internet was down, not a cyber attack they say. Funny that
BA are very capable of causing IT related chaos without any help from the Russians, they do it all the time.
HesterAndPearlInBrightSunshine · 26/02/2022 16:35

My heart goes out to those poor people stuck in cellars and waiting in fear....
As for us here, I'm meant to fly long haul to the US at the end of the month. Last time it was a faff because of Covid, now I'm worried about cyber attacks... I think we just need to keep a cool head and get used to international tensions. We all need to steady our nerves. Panic only makes us look weak and fascists, like wild animals, only respect strength.

Whammyyammy · 26/02/2022 16:52

Once this is all over the people of Russia will suffer for years. The rest of the world will shun them, their economy will be in tatters, their national Airline is banned from most countries and rightly so, they will not be able to visit anywhere. Already putins beloved football team is not going to play in any international games..... putin will be OK, bit his people won't .

thereisonlyoneofme · 26/02/2022 16:59

I wonder the Russian army is allowing this to happen they must have been brainwashed into believing Ukraine was a threat. Just read a report on BBC that a Russian soldier had no idea they were going to war. They could refuse to fight, what could Putin do against thousands.

User1isnotavailable · 26/02/2022 18:01

Did anyone see the BBC news clip with the lady going up to a Russian invading soldier and asking him what he was doing there. Brave lady. He told her not to make things worse. Her response 'how could she make it worse, you have invaded my country"

Brilliant woman and great responses to the invading Russian soldiers. Shame on Russia.

User1isnotavailable · 26/02/2022 18:02

@Whammyyammy

Once this is all over the people of Russia will suffer for years. The rest of the world will shun them, their economy will be in tatters, their national Airline is banned from most countries and rightly so, they will not be able to visit anywhere. Already putins beloved football team is not going to play in any international games..... putin will be OK, bit his people won't .
Perhaps the Russian people with backbones who don't believe in invading another country should stand up and protest to Putin. The shame is on all of them. They sit there whilst their army invades a peaceful country. Shame on the Russians.
OneMoreTimeThen · 26/02/2022 18:11

@User1isnotavailable there are brave Russians standing up and being heard. Do you realise what happens to people in Russia who protest? Would you honestly put your family's lives in danger if you faced those same consequences ?

TheHateIsNotGood · 26/02/2022 18:16

Not really - Putin will self-implode soon (like the Wicked Witch crushed in Kansas) but really sadly he's going to try and take as many people as he can with him and cause as much mayhem and chaos as he can.

I do think that he can be crushed by a continual barrage of sanctions, accompanied by sending arms and humanitarian assistance - as expected the poorest country in Europe, Moldova is being inundate by refugees, so we musn't forget them.

Sorry Putin, your time is over, retire gracefully now, as a Black Belt Judoga you should know how to do this.

ClaudineClare · 26/02/2022 18:27

Perhaps the Russian people with backbones who don't believe in invading another country should stand up and protest to Putin. The shame is on all of them. They sit there whilst their army invades a peaceful country. Shame on the Russians

This is so woefully ignorant. How keen would you be to get out on the streets and protest if it meant risking imprisonment or death for yourself and your loved ones?

TokyoSushi · 26/02/2022 18:37

Not RTFT but here's my thoughts...

I'm beginning to wonder (maybe wishful thinking) that this might be over fairly quickly. I think Putin has seriously underestimated the incredible fight the Ukrainian people are putting up. Or the strength of feeling from pretty much the whole world against him. I think they will keep turning the screws with the sanctions in every possible area, and hopefully they will begin to bite. Either way he has done irreparable damage to his reputation.

I think that Putin thought that it would be a fairly simple task and now he's being proven that might not be the case, I wonder if he'll soon graciously agree to 'talks' to try to resolve the situation. Either that or he'll ratchet up the invasion to horrific levels so as not to appear beaten. I sincerely hope that it isn't the latter. 🇺🇦

Olden · 26/02/2022 18:43

@TokyoSushi exactly my thoughts too. Let's all pray he chooses the first option 🙏

ParsleySageRosemary · 26/02/2022 19:04

Perhaps the Russian people with backbones who don't believe in invading another country should stand up and protest to Putin. The shame is on all of them. They sit there whilst their army invades a peaceful country. Shame on the Russians.

Also - how successful were British protests in stopping Iraq? Or the particular vision of Brexit that Johnson and Frost foisted off on everyone?
Do the Russian people have more power for change than we do?

Ganymedemoon · 26/02/2022 19:11

@User1isnotavailable sorry but your comment is just waaaaay out of touch with what is happening in Russia. Have you not seen the many Russians bravely protesting against Putin. Your comment also is so ignorant and reeks of western privilege. Have you ever lived in a dictatorship? No this is not on the Russian people, it's on Putin. You are wrong.

getsomehelp · 26/02/2022 20:41

All their media is censored, the majority believe Ukraine invaded

RedToothBrush · 26/02/2022 22:00

@TokyoSushi

Not RTFT but here's my thoughts...

I'm beginning to wonder (maybe wishful thinking) that this might be over fairly quickly. I think Putin has seriously underestimated the incredible fight the Ukrainian people are putting up. Or the strength of feeling from pretty much the whole world against him. I think they will keep turning the screws with the sanctions in every possible area, and hopefully they will begin to bite. Either way he has done irreparable damage to his reputation.

I think that Putin thought that it would be a fairly simple task and now he's being proven that might not be the case, I wonder if he'll soon graciously agree to 'talks' to try to resolve the situation. Either that or he'll ratchet up the invasion to horrific levels so as not to appear beaten. I sincerely hope that it isn't the latter. 🇺🇦

I personally would not go that far. Putin HAS to have a military win, or he will be ousted. So the incentive now is to throw the kitchen sink at Ukraine. Reports this evening were detailing bigger tanks entering Ukraine. These tanks are capable of launching thermobarbaric bombs (sic) so that is ratcheting things up.

Where Putin really is losing (and this does really matter) is with the propaganda war internationally. Ukraine's President has played an absolute blinder and has created a situation where if he is killed he becomes a martyr. And that in turn could ultimately mean he loses the propaganda war back home.

The thinking goes that Putin's strategy was founded on what he observed in Afghanistan last year, with the Taliban storming through and the Ukrainians fleeing in terror and abandoning their defence so he could set up a puppet government very quickly. Instead he's looking like he's just landed himself into a scenario closer to Afghanistan 1979. The trouble with him believing in the former strategy is that favours him deliberately targeting civilians (he has form in Chechnya for this) and he did use chemical weapons in Syria. Its a theory thats gained traction and credibility during the course of the day from a number of credible and experienced sources.

Russia seems to have sustained considerably more casualties than anticipated, soliders have run out of supplies and many are conscripts who thought they were being set for training but were instead sent straight into active service. They don't have much of an incentive to fight. And that contrasts with the defenders who have been stirred up to fight for their own land. If you create heroic martyrs in this way, you inspire others.

So it begs the question of whether Putin can really turn any military victory into a political one (see Afghanistan). He has to win a propaganda war to have any meaningful victory. Is that achievable still?

And thats without considering the domestic situation and a war of attrition. Putin isn't going to fund this from his personal assets...

I think the noise today, suggests that world leaders are likely to go further with sanctions and practical support for Ukraine than anyone would have anticipated just 48 hours ago, precisely because the Ukrainians appear to be holding up better than expected. I doubt this would happen if it were all just good propaganda. These reports have to be viewed as fairly credible by EU countries and NATO countries.

What I find striking is that Russia has blocked Facebook, Twitter and YouTube. They are censoring the word 'war' in all media. Instead its a 'special operation.' This is a real sign of weakness and concern. They have had to respond to the narratives on social media which clearly pose a threat to domestic support. Think US domestic opinion during Vietnam. It also means there's much opportunity for' Russian trolls' to be countering whats playing out on social media. It means that overall their propaganda war is hampered abroad. The question is whether there will be a rally together due to feeling ganged up on, or whether it will start to trigger wider protests. Its difficult to say but effect internationally alone is significant.

In many senses its rapidly becoming a war Putin cannot win as even if he wins militarily he's now got a poison chalice on his hands.

If he does go full on to target civilians, in a 'win at any cost' drive, its going to reinforce the sense of moral responsibility - this might be necessary for EU governments dealing with refugees and soaring costs due to fuel and gas shortages. Again that doesn't help Putin.

By all accounts Putin has fallen for the classic flaw of any dictator and over estimated things and the sheer level of corruption means hes unable to see what his military strength really was. Apparently there were many 'ghost soliders' in the ranks as part of this. So troop numbers, particularly of skilled soliders was actually lower than the Generals thought. Again this makes sense. Especially with the rumours are that civilian doctors are now being conscripted too.

I dont buy into the idea that Ukraine will quickly defeat Russia now either though. Its going to get very very bloody quickly quickly and/or very very bogged down and go on for a long time.

Unless the mood back home changes. That gives me two big IFs. IF the Russian people or Oligarchs turn against him and how far will he go if things start to look bad for him; the rat in the corner. I think these are the really crucial questions for Western leaders.

Ukraine has to turn this into a Russian Vietnam extremely quickly, for its own sake. This is also something of a necessity for the West too, I feel because they have their own domestic audiences to keep happy. Hungry and cold citizens do not make happy citizens. Is this possible?

Crucially, in disabling twitter, Putin is perhaps handicapping his own counter propaganda capacity in the West. Worst still for Russia, official Russian outlets like RT are instead, getting deplatformed.

I think in this sense - which is reflective of hybrid war - the military conflict is definitely only part of the equation here.

Whether this will trigger cyberwarefare or worse - reminds to be seen. Whats happening is actually Russia is struggling to withhold information (via the internet) and western vigilante hackers look to be keeping them somewhat busy with their own cyberattacks. They seem to have managed to perhaps overplayed the threat of cyber attacks and instead pissed off some of the wrong people.

The old adage is true here - you can't hide the truth indefinitely, and if things genuinely are going badly, thats going to become very clear very quickly. Especially in a war, if its going badly. The news does filter back and it does lead to questions being raised. I personally think they will have better days ahead, and the Ukrainians are going to have some big set backs fairly soon, simply from a numbers perspective and if desparation to have some Russian progress sets in.

You don't just take whats being said at face value. You match it up with what you are seeing and what actions have been taken. NOTHING today has said Russia is in control of the situation.

So I do think the risks here are stabilising for the UK. But ramping up for Ukraine.

I think the next 24 - 48 hours will be crucial...

RedToothBrush · 26/02/2022 22:01

[quote Ganymedemoon]@User1isnotavailable sorry but your comment is just waaaaay out of touch with what is happening in Russia. Have you not seen the many Russians bravely protesting against Putin. Your comment also is so ignorant and reeks of western privilege. Have you ever lived in a dictatorship? No this is not on the Russian people, it's on Putin. You are wrong. [/quote]
Numbers of Russian protesters are still relatively small given the size of the population. I think they will grow though.