Is the UK in danger from Russia?

[hereforalongtimenotagoodtime]

Keep receiving conflicting information. I am sick to my stomach and quite simply hate the unknown. So a simple question - is it likely that the UK will be in danger from Russia? And if so what does that look like? Cyber attacks, bombs being dropped?

@user1481840227 I don’t think he means deaths actually. I did. But now I agree it will cyber attacks. That way he won’t get nuked in return, can cause chaos (and quite probably indirect and direct deaths when systems go down) and cause utter carnage without actually pressing the button that will cause a nuclear World War III.

Well yes. Nothing too immediate though. From the elite rather than Russia as a whole. Closing the laundry will hurt a bit. But the alternative is being argued over by dysfunctional parents. Choose which of Washington and Moscow is less insane. In 2003 it would have been a no brainer. Welcome to Brexit.

Don't confuse criminal attacks with military grade attacks.

As for sanctions...there was a report from early feb which made a point of how North Korea was managing to fund its entire nuke programme... Though cyber attacks on cryto currency.

So i do question quite how effective sanctions are really going to be.

@Kinsters

Youre right on it being different systems etc that they could gain access to. Not so much on the different technology as most government places especially use the same type of computers and servers, plus the vulnerabilities to target each different kind are all readily available online, including some YouTube demonstrations.

However these hackers don't need the help. It's not just one person or even one team. This is likely multiple teams of god knows how many of them working on it. Anonymous just recently took out some Russian sites, that wasn't one person. The Russians and the Chinese had other teams targeting other companies across Europe, not just British ones. They target companies worldwide.

As for the question of are they already in, who knows. Given the threats made, and that I don't believe they are actually as good as anonymous otherwise they'd have gained access to the previous company I worked for, then I'd say they probably already are as it would take them longer to do, not a day. Hopefully that's wrong though.

If you want to look at how badly a ransomware attack for example could cripple a company, and I imagine that's what they might do (effectively hold us hostage until we remove our troops/the usual is give them money but I doubt putin wants money) then look at what happened to SEPA. They spent most of last year redoing their systems, which was of course backlogged thanks to covid so couldn't get supplies quick enough. That's where the problem will lie, getting the technology, because once a computer system has been hit with ransomware, you have to assume anything connected is also compromised. The problem there is its all connected now within one company. And sometimes even across companies if done badly.

Youre right on it being different systems etc that they could gain access to. Not so much on the different technology as most government places especially use the same type of computers and servers, plus the vulnerabilities to target each different kind are all readily available online, including some YouTube demonstrations

How to say you just have surface knowledge of cyber security but try and come across as knowledgeable.

UK infrastructure is under attack constantly, and no one would get very far from following some script kiddy selling dodgy bots on YouTube.

It's military grade cyber war that every country faces daily. We (the EU/us/west) target others daily just as much as they do us.

One of the reasons that the UK ,US where publicaly briefing the press about the invasion and have shown the exact invasion tactics was to show Russia that they are already in their systems.

@Justanotherlurker

Youre right on it being different systems etc that they could gain access to. Not so much on the different technology as most government places especially use the same type of computers and servers, plus the vulnerabilities to target each different kind are all readily available online, including some YouTube demonstrations

How to say you just have surface knowledge of cyber security but try and come across as knowledgeable.

UK infrastructure is under attack constantly, and no one would get very far from following some script kiddy selling dodgy bots on YouTube.

It's military grade cyber war that every country faces daily. We (the EU/us/west) target others daily just as much as they do us.

One of the reasons that the UK ,US where publicaly briefing the press about the invasion and have shown the exact invasion tactics was to show Russia that they are already in their systems.

How to not read everything I said.

Also I never mentioned about a script kiddy selling bots. And if you knew what you were talking about, you'd know there's more on YouTube than just that, plus other sites have a lot of info.

But you'd know this of course, if you knew what you were talking about..

Also I never mentioned about a script kiddy selling bots. And if you knew what you were talking about, you'd know there's more on YouTube than just that, plus other sites have a lot of info.

Well as your asking I've worked in cyber sec for over 2 decades as a pen tester, I also manage petabytes of sensitive data.

The stuff you find on YouTube would lead you into a honeypot on any gov/critical system

Maybe it's you who should expand your knowledge of watching YouTube videos.

So yes, in short I feel I can comment.

@Justanotherlurker

Also I never mentioned about a script kiddy selling bots. And if you knew what you were talking about, you'd know there's more on YouTube than just that, plus other sites have a lot of info.

Well as your asking I've worked in cyber sec for over 2 decades as a pen tester, I also manage petabytes of sensitive data.

The stuff you find on YouTube would lead you into a honeypot on any gov/critical system

Maybe it's you who should expand your knowledge of watching YouTube videos.

So yes, in short I feel I can comment.

Really? Think you might want to, I've found great info on there before and other places. But we all learn in different ways.

Didn't say that you couldn't comment either. But you are a tad defensive for someone who knows so much. Next time, just read fully on what I said.

@Justanotherlurker

Youre right on it being different systems etc that they could gain access to. Not so much on the different technology as most government places especially use the same type of computers and servers, plus the vulnerabilities to target each different kind are all readily available online, including some YouTube demonstrations

How to say you just have surface knowledge of cyber security but try and come across as knowledgeable.

UK infrastructure is under attack constantly, and no one would get very far from following some script kiddy selling dodgy bots on YouTube.

It's military grade cyber war that every country faces daily. We (the EU/us/west) target others daily just as much as they do us.

One of the reasons that the UK ,US where publicaly briefing the press about the invasion and have shown the exact invasion tactics was to show Russia that they are already in their systems.

One of the reasons that the UK ,US where publicaly briefing the press about the invasion and have shown the exact invasion tactics was to show Russia that they are already in their systems I am going to sound dense here but you are saying that the info came from targetting (I had assumed old fashioned spying) - why let Russia know, it seems that Russia either didn't care or it speeded things up?

I wondered about the accusations made against Biden in relation to Ukraine during the election.

One of the reasons that the UK ,US where publicaly briefing the press about the invasion and have shown the exact invasion tactics was to show Russia that they are already in their systems

Yes of course we were but if we were, we wouldn't be telling them! esp difficult to believe because military sensitive stuff isn't connected to the internet, to access you have to physically be there.

Com satellites were telling everyone what Putin was up too but even then, the West didn't really know when he would move until he did.

Didn't say that you couldn't comment either. But you are a tad defensive for someone who knows so much. Next time, just read fully on what I said.

I've read everything you've said across multiple threads, and I'm pointing out there is vast difference of a web based vulnerability and server/crit system one.

I'm defensive when you questioned my knowledge

Yes of course we were but if we were, we wouldn't be telling them! esp difficult to believe because military sensitive stuff isn't connected to the internet, to access you have to physically be there

No of course we would, we couldn't go all out war. Everyone has accepted war has changed and this was a public message to Russia to show they can read their channels

Com satellites were telling everyone what Putin was up too but even then, the West didn't really know when he would move until he did

True, but it was more the invasion is imminent/routes of invasion. This wasn't Iraq WMD scare mongering for the public, it was a message to Putin directly. The military strategists had a part obviously, but in years to come this will be shown to be precise knowledge

I am going to sound dense here but you are saying that the info came from targetting (I had assumed old fashioned spying) - why let Russia know, it seems that Russia either didn't care or it speeded things up?

In effect yes, modern day spying, Russia has been building up troops on the boarder for months, everyone knows it would turn into ww3 if NATO/west kicks in but it was more a message to Putin to give him an out, let UK/us take the blame of scaremongering etc and move along.

In effect yes, modern day spying, Russia has been building up troops on the boarder for months, everyone knows it would turn into ww3 if NATO/west kicks in but it was more a message to Putin to give him an out, let UK/us take the blame of scaremongering etc and move along

Well, that worked well didn't it? A first world country in the heart of europe being destroyed, whilst the worlds largest and most powerful military alliance stands idly by, with 10s of 1000s of troops and equipment a few miles away.

all we've done is show Putin that all he has to do is walk into Poland etc and say "i ll nuke you if you try n stop me" and we'll stand by as well.

"Well, that worked well didn't it? A first world country in the heart of europe being destroyed, whilst the worlds largest and most powerful military alliance stands idly by, with 10s of 1000s of troops and equipment a few miles away*

It's called geopolitics, as you are over all these type of threads I thought you would have a basic grasp of it, in a simplistic term it's why Italy didn't want to introduce sanctions to Russia unless they can still supply the oligarchs with designer clothes/furnishings.

Your simplistic interpretation of having 10s of thousands of troops nearby and can do nothing shows you are not aware of possible escalation or geopolitics in general.

It's nothing more than a virtue signal of we should be doing more whilst ignoring the wider ramifications, even the basic grasp of the situation will show that putting troops on the ground will make China, Pakistan,India side with Russia. It is therefore ww3 with a lot nukes on either side.

It's easy to spout online and show how much you care about the situation online, the practicalities of what you want will just mean you can name change and complain that they should have done something different. Empty virtue signaling

@Justanotherlurker I was really replying to your dubious claim that the west was tapped into Russian secret comms & what a successful plan it all was... - as if you would know & if you did, you wouldn't be on here talking about it.

But you've made my point.... everything you say applies equally if Putin carried on into Poland or Latvia... so whats the point in NATO, he can do as he pleases.

Aside what is it with you rightwingers? any opposition and you throw your toys, pathetic.

I was really replying to your dubious claim that the west was tapped into Russian secret comms & what a successful plan it all was... - as if you would know & if you did, you wouldn't be on here talking about it.

I was giving a brief overview of the situation of someone in the know rather than someone like you who has gained Thier knowledge from mass media and think they have authority on these types of threads, if you want to highlight how western intelligence has been wrong feel free to post.

But you've made my point.... everything you say applies equally if Putin carried on into Poland or Latvia... so whats the point in NATO, he can do as he pleases

And yet you haven't refuted it with anything.

Aside what is it with you rightwingers? any opposition and you throw your toys, pathetic

If in doubt, throw the new Godwin's law, you have shown more about your stance in this topic than you realise, and it's not me being the right wing bogeyman you want to paint me as.

@Tealightsandd

You're a hysteric, not someone "Genuine knowledgeable about national (and global) security"

You really have no clue what my area of expertise is.

Lol

Indeed.

Again. I'm stepping away from this (hyberbolic) thread. Don't want me here, stop posting to me. If you could refrain from personal insults, that would be nice but nevermind. The sign of a lost argument.

I'm off out.

Last night, I tried to post in a non-mocking way and to give you the benefit of doubt re a matter that is obviously important to you.

Catching up on this thread today, I’m now neutralising my view. The last thing I’ll say (again) is that you will alienate the majority further if you’re bringing this up on completely unrelated threads. The fact you want to gain recognition for something important to you (and numerous others) is ok. But it’s not ok to do so out of context - and definitely not ok in relation to this situation.

You will likely still get numerous people tagging you as they read your posts. You don’t NEED to respond to them - because your responses add to the alienation.

Any evidence that our intel came from cyber means rather than conventional espionage?

And @AllOfUsAreDead surely Wannacry showed that actually there is not uniformity? I'll ask again if there are any real world examples of cyber attacks bringing a country to its knees? I notice none of the cyber attack doom mongers have been able to point to any examples...I realise that in theory it could happen but I just don't buy that it's something anyone could accomplish in practice. Saying that perhaps there are russian spies stationed in all key locations (hospitals, powerplants, water treatment facilities?) is a fine thing to say but is there any evidence this is happening? None at all. It's as realistic as saying there are a load of Russian agents in the UK ready to detonate bio weapons - it's fear mongering and there's no evidence for it. In fact bioweapons would be more likely because at least there there's a proven track record of them causing harm unlike cyber attacks.

@Kinsters

Any evidence that our intel came from cyber means rather than conventional espionage?

And @AllOfUsAreDead surely Wannacry showed that actually there is not uniformity? I'll ask again if there are any real world examples of cyber attacks bringing a country to its knees? I notice none of the cyber attack doom mongers have been able to point to any examples...I realise that in theory it could happen but I just don't buy that it's something anyone could accomplish in practice. Saying that perhaps there are russian spies stationed in all key locations (hospitals, powerplants, water treatment facilities?) is a fine thing to say but is there any evidence this is happening? None at all. It's as realistic as saying there are a load of Russian agents in the UK ready to detonate bio weapons - it's fear mongering and there's no evidence for it. In fact bioweapons would be more likely because at least there there's a proven track record of them causing harm unlike cyber attacks.

TBF, I think a few posters have tried to explain scenarios.

I’m a technophobe. But even I can see the possibilities. The “spies” don’t necessarily need to be placed in the physical locations (hospitals, banks, whatever). It’s not physical sleeper cells in those places.

There are so many possible permutations of how a cyber attack could hit. It’s not going to follow a logical/linear line (ie oh, all banks are out, no worries, I’ve got cash to pay for my food).

@Furries I have read the posts and understand the possible scenarios but it's all unfounded speculation as far as I can tell. I can see how it would be catastrophic if they brought down all the banks, all the supermarket POS systems, all the NHS hospitals, all the government departments...but is there really evidence of any actor having the capabilities to pull off the kind of doomsday total shutdown scenarios that have been mentioned? I just don't buy it. There's too much variation in software, systems and security protocols. And that's not even to mention the contingencies that are just naturally built into our lives. Asda tills all down? Go to Tesco instead. Lloyds banking system down? Use cash, a different bank account, mobile payment system.

@Justanotherlurker

Didn't say that you couldn't comment either. But you are a tad defensive for someone who knows so much. Next time, just read fully on what I said.

I've read everything you've said across multiple threads, and I'm pointing out there is vast difference of a web based vulnerability and server/crit system one.

I'm defensive when you questioned my knowledge

Oh for god sake I know that, but we are talking to people here who know literally nothing about cyber security and use password123 as a password. Me going into a dictionary definition and pulling out a power point presentation to explain those things will not help them at all.

They need to know that if something big happened, we're basically screwed. Because everything is computer based now. That's all they need to know, they don't need to know how it's done. They need to know how to protect themselves, be extra vigilant on keeping secure.

I am trying not to resort to panic and hysteria but I confess to being worried about the cyber stuff.

I know someone whose company was cyber attacked by the Russians this week. He's not someone prone to panic but he's worried now.

Trying to keep a rational head on my shoulders whilst taking sensible precautions - changing passwords (aim for 18 characters minimum), setting up 2-factor authentication, updating operating systems on IT and backing up computers, keeping paper copies of important documentation, ensuring I have cash in the house, batteries, torches to hand etc.

Trying to find a balance between covering bases and not descending into the bog-roll hoarding crazies.