to want to study some more?

[Swedes2Turnips1]

I am a Bachelor of Laws and have a postgraduate journalism qualificaton. I also have 4 (very lovely) children: 5 months, 2 years, one just joined senior school and one about to sit GCSEs. I really fancy studying philosophy. Would it be terribly selfish?

Why would someone not work because their dh was away? I know someone in this position (with 4 dcs) and I think she finds she needs the change of scene with adult company even more.

Single mums work.

I think we owe it to our children to love them, that entails being generous with our time. You can outsource childcare but you can't outsource love. I think anything else is a gift. I also happen to believe that a good education is the probably the most significant gift you can give to your children (love and your time are essentials). For some people (me included) it might mean you feel you have to pay for that education to procure the best. If you can't afford independent fees then I'm sure most parents are careful with their gift of education - a house in the right catchment, a job in the right town etc. It is also true that the more time you are able to give your children the more you can give the gift of education yourself. So if you are a teacher, for example, you might be justifiably totally confident that the state education topped up by your time is the best. I have seen this work to great effect.

inthegutter - maybe you and your DH did not consider that option, but actually, it just happens in many people's career progression (not likely when you are a teacher, but not everyone can be a teacher ). Their company gets bought by another company from another country and hey presto they are part of a big international group... or their company expands overseas, or gets new clients in another country. All sorts of unpredictable things happen and people just have to get on with it. Except that it's really hard to go to work every day in a responsible job and look after children properly when your other half is never there.

Acinonyx - single mums often have partners who share the childcare - I am thinking of my partner's ex-wife here, who couldn't do the job she does unless she were divorced and I was there to pick up the pieces

I mean, if she weren't divorced

A lot of women (not all, I know Xenia) with kids at private schools are not earning the fees themselves - their dh's are.

What would you do Swedes, if it were down to you alone to earn the money for your dcs school fees?

Personally - I'm going the house in catchment and parent-teaching route. Maybe I would feel differently if I were really keen on private ed - but actually I'm not unless you are in a really bad area (in which case how could you afford it anyway?). Just as well, as we can't afford it.

Swedes - I would agree with most of what you wrote, but where does upbringing end and education begin? Surely you "educate" your children as part and parcel of living with them and trying to make them into civilised human beings who will eventually make their own way in the world? And is that a "gift" or some kind of extra, or is it just an integral part of living with them?

Anna of course it happens in many people's career progression!!I just don't get your statement that if one partner is in a career that means being away for a week at a time, the other partner HAS to be at home!! For many parents that wouldnt be viable or desirable. And although some single parents may have partners to share the childcare, an awful lot of them don't!

Anna do you credit yourself with picking up the pieces of your dh's ex?

I'm sure she loves you for that

Just wondering if my degree is seen as a "hobby". Have been studying for 7 years now.. just in the final year of my degree & seriously considering an MA.

My dd is at school, ds starts playgroup now on Monday. I will seek employment when I finish the MA, unless I win the lottery first

Anna/Inthegutter - Isn't there some horrible statistic about the number of absent fathers who even see their children post break up or divorce, let alone share the childcare? I think Anna lives in cloud cuckoo land.

Anna - are you thinking of home educating then, if you can provide it all?

Anna - I seem to recall that you sent your little girl off to school whilst she was still 2 - what for if you were providing a wholesome education at home.

I can do the education thing until about 7 then the maths gets too complicated.

fireflyfairy - absolutely not. We've recently had to threaten her with legal action because she was travelling so much.

But, inevitably, she has far fewer childcare responsibilities now than when she was married to her children's father. So she is freer to travel for work and can take on more responsibility than when she had a husband and children at home wanting her home every evening.

Swedes - my daughter started school at the normal time for children in this country. 99% of children start school by the calendar year of their third birthday in France (quite a few start sooner, btw).

swedes - yes, I can't remember the actual figure but I know that a shocking number of fathers completely lose touch with their children within a few years of divorce.

But Anna if you weren't around, she'd probably make other arrangements. Anyway, extra time for career, new loves, whatever you fancy is arguably the main - some might say only - perk of being divorced.

Anna is your partner's ex-wife engaged in a proper job or a joblet? It is really hard being a single parent. I know I've been there.

I'm guessing the fact that your dh's ex was swanning about all over the place plays a huge part in the way you see things.. playing at being a good wife, having dinner parties, always being at home... the polar opposite from the ex aren't ya?

fireflyfairy - LOL. If you're really interested, it's my partner's ex who was forever giving dinner parties and going out, has a personal trainer and goes to the hairdresser every week. I'm nothing like that .

Swedes - she has a very well-paid job (though I'm sure you wouldn't find it interesting, and nor do I), and she is very upfront about how her career has taken off since her divorce as she now has more time to devote to it.

NKF - I completely agree that having extra time for oneself and adult pursuits is a big perk of divorce. I know lots of couples in second marriages who don't have children together and so they manage to spend 50% of their time alone while their respective children are with their ex-es, and they are pretty upfront about how much they enjoy that arrangement.

On my partner's ex making other arrangements - no, she can't - believe it or not , family courts here in France do not look at all favourably on divorced parents who are using third parties to care for their children on a regular basis in the evenings - the idea is that when children are with one of their parents for the evening, that parent be at home the vast majority of the time.

Gosh it seems sad that when so much of the thread has centred on getting the balance right within the family, and ensuring that children are getting a good deal, we're now getting on to the 'perks' of divorce being having more time for oneself and adult pursuits!
I suppose one should try to look for the positives in any crap situation, but it does seem a shame that anyone can view it like this. I know a number of my kids' friends whose parents have such arrangements and end up with alternate weekends 'child free' or whatever. Maybe its nice for them, but beleive me, having listened to the kids, they'd all prefer their parents to be together.

Well, if I remember correctly it was Anna's partner who sought the divorce. So I guess it's not so unreasonable that his unwillingly divorced wife gets something out of it.

That is certainly common in most divorces although usually for the father. My e xhusband went from many hours child care a week to choosing virtually none, from most evenings dealing with children to 365 nights a year child free. In the UK but perhaps not France you cannot make a father (or mother for that matter) post divorce even see the children once a year never mind help with them. Most of what one person tells you in a divorce however is usually untrue so it's best to assume the opposite of what you're told by any person in the first instance or at least assume they're both as bad as each other. Perks of divorce for my ex are nearly £1m in the bank and no parental duties and loads of free time. It's the classic female marry to make money and then divorce thing but without the childcare responsibilities after. But that's all rather off the point.

Probably half the women on this thread will sadly split up with their other half before they're 60 so planning for that is also important particularly as wage earners have a habit of disappearing abroad or reducing their earnings to £10k a year conveniently after a divorce. Yet another reason to support yourself and your children whilst married.

On the issue of whether we should pursue a life we enjoy or one that earns enough for the children which is fascinating - obviously if you hate being a housewife so much you're on the verge of suicide or ditto work ( but remembering there is much more depression amongst housewives than working women) then obviously it does not benefit your children if you carry on like that although therapy might be cheaper than giving up a good career. However if you would be fine working but might just prefer to sit around then I think it's pretty selfish not to work and provide for your children or at the least save up for their university education etc although there is clearly no legal duty on you to do so.

I just came off the phone to my sister who asked me if the older children pay to live here (they don't as they don't have an income and are students and I'm quite happy with that) because she's told hers they certainly can't once they're 18 although I am sure by then she will have different views. Most people let their children come home for university holidays.

inthegutter - I can accept "all children would prefer their parents to be together and happy", but it is not true that all children would prefer their parents to be together and unhappy.

When parents have irreconcilable differences they can make their children's lives a misery. What's worse for children - two unhappy parents slogging it out together, or two parents happily separated with new partners?

NKF - maybe , though in matter of fact child access arrangements are entirely fault-neutral - the parent who seeks the divorce in no way becomes responsible for extra babysitting as part and parcel of the compensation package . Do you think they should?