to want to study some more?

[Swedes2Turnips1]

I am a Bachelor of Laws and have a postgraduate journalism qualificaton. I also have 4 (very lovely) children: 5 months, 2 years, one just joined senior school and one about to sit GCSEs. I really fancy studying philosophy. Would it be terribly selfish?

What if he didn't earn a lot though Anna? You're lucky to be in the position you are. If he earnt an average wage would you opt for the career path you felt driven to or one that would suit your children??

Personally, I am likely to choose the latter because I know at 26 and having my final child, I will be young enough to retrain and still have a lengthy career as a mw once they're old enough not to need me at home anymore, but if I was older, I'd probably choose the former.

'IMO, no matter which I choose to do, my children will be perfectly happy, they will always be well-looked after, they know how much I love them and will just be used to whichever job I end up doing as being 'mums job'.
I think it would probably benefit them more to see me working my butt off to do a job I really wanted to than them to see me working hard to do a job I chose as second best.'

Excellent post Victoriansqualor. I think when it comes to the world of work (which after all is what most adults will end up spending a significant part of their life doing) our children are better off knowing that they have fulfilled and stimulated parents. I teach because a) I find it interesting and stimulating b)I am good at it c) I 'believe ' in it as a worthwhile career (not sure I could deal with doing an interesting job if I didnt think it had a worthwhile objective) and d) it pays the bills. Studying often has a place in our lives, usually for a temporary period of time, and can I believe be worthwhile in itself or as a means to an end. But the important thing as I think Anna8888 pointed out is that once you have children with someone, you have a joiny responsibility to earn a living and bring up your children.

*joint

VS - if we needed the money to live, I think would go out to work and earn as much as I possibly could in the fewest possible hours on the basis that my partner would still be working full-time and my family would still need me.

But again, the equation is so dependent on multiple personal variables that it is always hard to say what you would really do.

In your position - well, I would probably use my existing qualifications unless I really, really hated what I was qualified to do.

Anna - So if you don't need the money to live, would you describe your own job as a joblet like that of the wife of your banker friend. I find that term a bit condescending.

I have no existing qualifications

There's a very big difference between my job and that of our banker friend's wife.

I have almost no childcare costs and I earn a very significant hourly wage. My job can also grow in future, when I have more time available to devote to it.

Our banker friend's wife's wages do not cover her childcare costs (by a significant amount). So she is working for negative money. It is also a job without huge long-term financial prospects. That's what I mean by a joblet or a hobby job - it doesn't contribute money to the family.

VS - well, in that case, go ahead and qualify. Fair enough.

Anna - you mentioned community work. Would you consider working for a charity with no positive net earnings to be a joblet? Or does it's worthwhile nature raise it above that label?

Acinonyx - I think charity/community work where you put your skills at someone else's disposal for free can be very worthwhile, and I think that, where family income permits, that it is a good role model for children to see their parents devote some time to others.

That's not the same at all, to my mind, as an essentially self-interested wage-earning job but that does not actually make a real financial contribution to family life.

justabout - I thought you were an English graduate - didn't we once discuss Pope's Essay on Man in IV Epistles?

justabout - that's a lot of hobby degrees
when you are next in London and have some free time - let me know

justabout - how do manage not to feel guilty?

So those nice middle class ladies who work in the charity shops - that's not a hobby or a joblet - that's a real job. But someone whose dh could easily support the family but nevertheless works as a relatively low-paid archivist analysing the life of CHaucer has a joblet/hobby.

Just schecking our working definitions here.

Justabout - I absolutely allow it.

No Acinonyx - I wasn't thinking about low skilled/unskilled charity jobs when I wrote that. More along the lines of CAB - I have a lawyer friend who now does CAB - so she gives proper legal advice for free. Or people who, after years working in business, do management jobs in charitable/educational institutions for a tiny fraction of their previous wages.

If the DW of the DH in question is happy to support her DH in his joblet - well fine. But if I were the DH in question I would be wracked with guilt at my own self-indulgence.

To go back to the OP.... from the info you've given on your various posts on the thread, no, it doesn't sound as if it would be selfish to do more studying, because in your particular set of circumstances, it doesn't sound as though it's going to negatively affect anyone in the family. So if it's going to make you feel happier/a better person etc then go for it. I suppose this thread reflects the fact that a good partnership is remembering that all relationships are organic, and you need to listen to eachother, and compromise as you both grow through life. At times, the balance may shift, with one partner maybe taking on more responsibility at home for a while, but I still maintain that the most healthy relationships are ones where there is an overall balance, so that children are brought up seeing first hand that both their parents possess a mix of qualities - nurturing, providing etc. It's pointless to waste time thinking 'Would I be a better mother if I were at home all day?' if, like most people, your cicumstances don't allow it. I have always worked, mostly full time though some p/t. The only months I spent as a SAHM was on maternity leave. Nothing else was an option, as we couldn't live on DP's teaching salary. I'm fortunate though, in that I love teaching and would probably choose to do it even if we could afford not to. And to be honest, if you were to ask any of my 3 children what's been most important, and whether they would have changed anything and maybe had one parent at home, I'm pretty certain their repsonse would be that what makes them happiest is having two parents who after 20 odd years together still enjoy eachothers company and still find life fun and interesting.

justabout - but what about your child(ren)? You don't mention them at all in the list of worthwhile things you do... do you need some kind of public validation for your actions to think something is worthwhile?

Indeed, study as a way of getting closer to God is not a concept I can identify with at all.

Study is a way of learning to live a better and more productive life on earth IMO.